I am a menopausal (52 years old) low carber (PP with major CALP overtones) who began this WOE at 120 pounds, interested in losing 15 of them. I found this forum shortly after I began low carbing--around Thanksgiving--and have received wonderful support and loads of fantastic ideas, advice, stories, information, and more. So much of it has been wonderfully helpful. However, I have become aware that there is a bit of a difference between needing to lose, say, 100 (or even 50) pounds and needing to figure out how to lose those last stubborn pounds, the ones that seem determined to stick around no matter how faithful one is to the book (whichever book it is--Atkins, PP, CALP, CAD, and so on).

I would like to canvas responses from anyone reading this post/thread who has had to travel this road and has learned the hard way just what it has taken to get those last extra pounds to move (slowly, probably). Some people have had to lose a great deal to get to that point; others have started from the point of needing to lose only 5 to 15 pounds. I believe each is a completely different case, just as I believe each person is completely different (with respect to what works best).

However, I'm sure there are common areas, and I'd like to hear from others about everything:
fat/carb/protein ratios
calories (controlled or not)
portion size (controlled or not)
number of meals/day (three? two? six? as many as one feels like having? snacking or not?)
total carbs or net carbs?types of carbs?
AS/sugar?
stall breakers: important!
exercise
times of day to eat
medications as stalls

Please offer advice, experiences, products, supplements...anything that has educated you in helping to mobilize toward goal from the position of a 5- to 15-pound loss.

I hope I'm not the only one interested in hearing about this! I know that similar threads have helped others with much more to lose--but I believe that this type of loss may be a whole different mountain needing to be moved, and I'd like to make the acquaintance of others in this situation.

Best, Sona

Just wanted to say I will be watching this thread and offering my advice when possible. I am not coming up with anything at the moment but I will in time.

fat/carb/protein ratios - As I get closer to goal, my fat has gone down some (see calories below), but I still eat around 60-65% fat most days, I'm at about 40 g carbs and working my way up (finally! too scared before), and have increased my protein from my usual 90-100 g on days that I workout hard to about 125-135 g.

calories (controlled or not) -- sort of. I keep an eye on them so they don't get out of control. Generally, I'm around 1500 per day now. But during the period I lost most of my weight, I was averaging around 1700-1800.

portion size (controlled or not) -- definitely yes - more so as I get close to goal, I simply don't need as much food as I did at 215, or even 180. I eat until satisfied.

number of meals/day: 3 meals. I count my daily espresso as a snack. May have one other small snack.

total carbs or net carbs? types of carbs? 40 carbs now, net 30. Spent most of my time at about the 20-25 g net range. Veggies, yogurt, daily berries, other fruit, Splenda, cream (2 oz avg), 1-2 oz cheese maybe, 1 oz nuts, .5 cup sunflower seeds, etc. I learned the hard way to avoid most LC products

AS/sugar? 2 tsp Splenda daily, not much else, very occasional diet pop with nutrasweet (like once a month or less) with cream in a faux float.

stall breakers: Haven't ever stalled when I am on plan

exercise: avg 1x per week in main weight loss phase, now avg. 4 x per week, biking and some weights

times of day to eat: don't really worry about this, though I try not to snack after dinner.

medications as stalls: none

Your information is so interesting/helpful; thanks for being so thorough! I was wondering...How long have you been at the weight (with the remaining pounds left to lose) that you are currently at? I mean, now that you're at 1500 cal/day on average, with the other modifications, at what rate would you say you are losing, approaching your goal weight? Also, when you started, were you losing at a steadier (or faster) rate than now, or is it about the same?

Most people whose posts I've read seem to feel that their loss slows as they approach their goal. Now that you're eating less and exercising more, I wondered if your weight loss is about the same, less, or more...?

Thanks so much!

Best, Sona

I lost most of my weight (40 lbs) from March to August of 2003. As you can see I lost pretty fast. I had no stalls that lasted more than a two or three days. I ate 20-25 net carbs most of this time - with the occasional higher carb day (under 40) maybe once a week. I was exercising semi-regular a couple times per week. Some weights and hiking.

In August I went on holiday for a month - allowed myself a few more treats. I maintained because I was active.

In Sept, I had a hard time getting back on the wagon strictly. I was eating too many frankenfoods and lc treats. I fluctuated between 168 and 174 from Sept to Feb 2004.

Then I gave myself a good talking to. It's important to me - mentally - to reach my goal, so I kicked it into high gear again. I'm bicycling a lot and doing weights 2x per week, mostly upper body. This is only in the last few weeks, mind you. I've dropped almost another 10 lbs pretty quick. I think I could get these last few pounds off pretty quick, but I've decided to slow things down.

I haven't properly found my carb level for maintenance because I've been really very happy at my current carb level, and maybe a little scared to up them quick enough.

To drop those 10 lbs I had to really take a look at my portion sizes. I was eating the same amounts I had been 20 and 30 lbs ago. So I was maintaining. A few little changes got the scale moving again. I also eat more protein and carbs and a bit less fat.

I'd have to say my loss is about the same as before - 1.5 to 2 lbs per week. The plan works for me, as long as I work the plan.

Hope that helps. Everyone's different. I'm not very metabolically resistant obviously. And I'm pretty strict with myself becuase I tend to be impatient. When my head is in the right place, I want to lose fast (always staying healthy, though).

Other people are happy to lose at a slower pace, and find life more bearable with a few treats. My friend is doing great with that approach.

In the long run, it might even be better. I don't know. I suppose some people think I should have upped my carbs more by now, but I have a good variety of fruits and veggies and such because I don't spend my carbs on very many LC products or snack items.

I think everyone has to undertake this journey at their own pace. Me, I go fast, then take a breather, then go fast. Other people are slow and steady.

Good luck with your last 10 lbs.

Man, I sure do blabber on. I'm spending way too much time on these forums in the last couple days!

For me the key at the end was definitely exercise. I went from moderate exercise (yoga three times a week) to Body for Life (six days a week, alternating cardio and heavy weight lifting). Because of the increase in activity I also increased carbs and increased the total food intake. I was hungry all the time! You're supposed to eat six small meals on BFL but I never got the hang of that. The best I could do was three regular meals plus two snacks.

If I recall correctly I only lost a couple of pounds but I dropped two dress sizes. I quit BFL after eight weeks & I often wonder how much more I would have accomplished if I'd finished the program. But, it's been almost 9 months and I'm still the same dress size, so I can't complain. Now I'm back to yoga 3-4 times a week.

My feeling is that without stepping up exercise I would have needed to limit calories and control carbs more strictly to shake those last few pounds.

I think that's definitely true, Sarah. I'm finding the same. By upping my exercise I don't need to worry quite as much about the carbs and calories. It's hard for me to let go of the reigns, though!

Glad to hear you are having no trouble maintaining!

Kaillean and SarahO, you both seem to be pretty on top of what it takes to keep moving toward goal~

I was wondering...around how many times/day do you eat, and approx. what times? I mean, do you eat before a workout, do you always eat breakfast, do you snack? Kaillean, I see you eat 3 x/day--when is your last meal, I mean how far from sleep?

Sometimes I think there may be something to how much is eaten (and what) how soon before bed, that sort of thing.

Also, I can exercise only first thing upon rising (after breakfast and washing up, etc.)--I never have enough energy to work out after work or during the afternoon. How about you-all?

Right now, I'm trying to have breakfast every morning before I work out. I didn't use to--but I'm trying to follow some advice I've been given about having a meal within one hour of rising. It's not a huge breakfast--generally egg whites or 4 oz or chicken breast or the equivalent in light tofu. Then I work out, have lunch around 12:30 and dinner around 5:30. No snacks. Lunch is the carb-heavy meal (I sweeten with stevia, but no AS), and my day's total is 30 ECC (net) grams carb.

But I do have an appetite, and I can't seem to manage on less than 1350-1500 calories/day. That means about 50-56% fat, 30-40% protein.

I haven't lost any weight in months, but I'm not gaining, either. I'm not adding muscle or losing inches, so I seem to be in a stall or plateau. I'm thinking I may need to try harder to lower my calories and continue to rein in my portions. I'm not keen on upping my exercise--I'm at 45 minutes aerobics every other day and minor weight lifting on the off days. I get tired.

Anyway, that's kind of my story! I'll be reading posts here with avid interest, which is why I'm hoping to get others over here to put in their two cents' worth!

Best, Sona

Sheesh. I'm no expert. How tall are you? Is it possible your body is telling you you don't need to go lower?

I wouldn't necessarily cut portions or calories if you feel you need that much to be satisfied. That's the key, IMO. As long as you are not overeating.

Some people find they are less hungry if they eat smaller meals.

I work from home, and generally get up around 9AM (Lazy, I know!). I have my breakfast within an hour. I usually have my espresso with cream and Splenda around 12 ish, and then lunch between 1 and 3 pm. I then eat dinner around 8ish. Sometimes I will have a snack at night, but more rarely now.

I will also sometimes have a small carby snack (around 20g, eg. an apple) if I am going to weight lift or do an extended trail ride.

You could maybe try upping your fat a wee bit to see if that helps your satiety.

But really what you're doing looks good.

I'd look at the exercise. Maybe you need a change. Maybe you need to increase your intensity - though not necessarily the length of your workouts.

Many people find the final sculpting and getting the bodies we imagine is not so much a matter of losing weight as lowering body fat. Do you know what yours is? You could experiment with doing an extra weight day and one less cardio. Maybe up your weights a bit?

There is good info on the exercise forum.

Well, Kaillean, to start with the first question, I'm 5 feet 2 inches--and I believe I look best at around 105. I've been 100, 110, 115...and 105 is my favorite. But it's very hard to get to.

Quote: "I wouldn't necessarily cut portions or calories if you feel you need that much to be satisfied. That's the key, IMO. As long as you are not overeating."

The question is, what's overeating? For all I know, I'm eating more than I should be. I don't eat till I feel stuffed, but obviously if I trained myself to eat less, eventually (after the feeling of not having eaten enough died down, over the course of several days) I would feel satisfied with less. It's that interim period that's hard: when you're wanting more and training yourself to be happy with less!

I think your exercise advice is very good. I need to work on feeling less tired, however--which may be the lack of carbs talking. Of course, it could also be that I'm 52, although there are many people with plenty of energy at any age. Even my jogs are harder now--my legs feel heavier, they ache more. I have to stop to walk rapidly more than I used to...that sort of thing. I'm not sure how to fix that. Nelson is trying 2 tablespoons of honey before her workout and she feels that gives her extra energy. I'm not sure about it for me--it'd probably just make me crave carbs and then put weight back on me!

I could up my weights, I think. As for my body fat, I'm not certain about it. I did the calculations offered in the Protein Power book, however, and that gave me 26.67 percent. Seems high to me; I'd prefer around 22 percent.

Anyway, I appreciate the input. Every bit helps me to think about ideas.

Best, Sona

Hi Sona, I'm 5'1" and by the time I reached 115 I was losing verrry slowly, so I'm not at all surprised that it's going slowly for you as well. I realize it's frustrating, especially since you had so little to lose so it's not like you lost 50 lb. and then started to slow down.

I do *not* think you need to cut calories. 1300-1500 is not high, especially if you're exercising every day.

That body fat percentage sounds inaccurate to me, unless you are a weakling or an invalid (which you can't be, exercising so much) I bet your true BF% is much lower. Our stats are very similar and I have a home BF scale, it tells me I'm at 23-24%. But, it's really hard to accurately measure BF % without going to a professional. So I wouldn't worry about a calculation from a book. Your dress size is a much better indicator if you don't have a good way to measure body fat.

I think your feeling of exhaustion is telling. Maybe you're overtraining? If so, increasing carbs would probably help. (and if this is your problem, cutting calories will only make it worse.) I'm not suggesting a spoonful of sugar before working out (although some weightlifters do that) but maybe some whole grains, higher carb vegetables or something. With more good carbs, your body would have more energy & would not only get more from the exercise you're already doing, but might respond to additional intensity. If Natrushka is stll hanging out in the exercise forums, you might ask her. She knows a lot about these issues & is a great role model besides.

Kaillean is exactly right that when we're already fairly slim, we need to forget about weight to some degree, and focus on how our bodies actually look. Like I said, after eight weeks of Body for Life I had lost almost no weight, but was 2 dress sizes smaller. If all I cared about was the number on the scale, I would have seen BFL as a failure, when really it did a lot for me.

I'm especially heartened to read what you say about my bofy fat percentage. I followed the formula in Protein Power pretty carefully, but I'm hoping that you're right--it's inaccurate (on the high side).

As for the fatigue, it's not from overtraining, of that I am sure. I remember overtraining and the fatigue that resulted (twelve years ago), and I'm nothing near that level of activity, exercise, or stress to my body. The fatigue may be from lack of carbs (20-30 ECC carbs is very little to someone from a vegetarian, nonfat, low-calorie WOE for 25 years, and if carbs were "fueling" me to some extent before, the lack now--and the need for my body to adjust to getting its energy from my fat stores--may be a major contributor to the fatigue). I'm not sure yet that adding carbs would help my long-term goal of losing the last 10 pounds. Adding carbs might lend me some energy, particularly before a run, but would then negate the concept of drawing/burning energy from fat stores instead of from carbing, no? Also, I've always had the sneaking suspicion that fatigue indicates burning my own fat (for a weight loss), whereas energy indicates a surplus within my body (leading to maintenance or weight gain). Maybe faulty, but it's been borne out in me through years of experimentation. Of course, this is a new experiment!

Tell me: You say you stopped BFL after 8 weeks, and that was some time ago, yes? Are the effects still there? I mean, was that enough time for your body to "redefine" itself and stay that way even after you stopped the exercise regimen? Or have you gone back somewhat to the way you were before BFL?


It is a happy thought that (as you say) I may not have to ratchet down from 1300-1500 calories/day. I envy those who say that they just aren't as hungry as they used to be--especially when I see that 1200 cals. seem to satisfy them. Not so for me. At least not right now.

Thanks for the input, SarahO!

While I usually avoid taking supplements other that vitamins, this is an excellent product that I have used with success. It is called Hot-Rox. I find it best to take this supplement as directed, and take it with a glass of water first thing in the AM and then perform 45 minutes of cardio. The combination of this supplement along with working out in the morning on an empty stomach allows you to burn fat 3 to 4 x's more than usual. If you have any questions, feel free to email me.

Here is review of the product, by a Fitness Trainer that I know:

http://www.hrfit.net/Reviews/HotRox.shtml

And here is the cheapest price available:

http://www.discountanabolics.com/pa...ROD/BIOTEST/HRX

Best of luck to you!

I agree that if you're so fatigued you should look at upping your carbs.

I find now that to achieve the intensity of exercise I need to get fit and really lose body fat, I do need some carbs before working out intensely.

I won't do this for a moderate 30 min cycle in the city, for example. But if I lift weights, or am going to do a tough afternoon of cross country bike riding, I find I need something.

Remember, if you're in ketosis, you are always burning fat. So that's not as much of a priority to me. Now I'm trying to build muscle (which will help me get the BF down), and for that I need to have fuel. I've been experimenting with 20-40 g of carbs prior to a tough workout.

I find I'm getting much better performance. Sure my calories burned is a bit less because I first have to burn up those carbs I ate, but I'm able to work a lot harder, so my fitness level is improving more quickly.

I think BF is far more key than weight at this point. Losing another 10 lbs I don't think would make me look that much better. I might be smaller, but I'd still be jiggly and soft.

Getting my BF down from it's current 28-29% to even 22% is going to have a much bigger impact on how I look, in my opinion.

My biggest problem has always been my impulsivity toward treats, so my key was to find a good balance where the food I was eating was just as enjoyable (or better) than cheating. I'd go ahead and have wings and LC beer at the pub. I'll go ahead and have the occasional LC chocolate. In other words, I had to stop dieting and just do this out of habit.

When it came to the "last 10", though, I found that I had to let go of my unrealistic expectations. I refuse to do anything drastic. If I can't get there doing healthy LC and enjoyable, non-exhausting/non-punishing exercise, then that means I'm done. I'm in maintenance whether I like it or not. My original goal was 125-130, and I've pretty much stopped at 135-140. I tried BFL, I've tried going hard core just to see how low I really could go, but it never lasts. I get down to maybe 134, but as soon as I eat "normally" (but still LC) again, it comes back. It's been over a year, so that's not a stall, it's the end.

You're aiming for a BMI of 19.2, which is the top end of underweight. Though I wish you luck, I have to admit, hardly anyone accomplishes that through healthy measures, particularly with LCing because you're eating enough protein to keep your lean body mass. *shrug* Whatever you do to get it off, you're going to have to keep doing for good.