i am good acquaintances with someone who knew from first-hand sources that the studies about aspartame were deliberately changed, to avoid the problems they knew it caused in the brain. studies can be deliberately falsified, and will come out with the desired results that benefit those who paid for them in the first place.

i already mentioned the protein consumption studies that were ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
they used to say that we could not generate new brain cells, with their studies. now all of a sudden, they find that we can.

i have seen so much of this in my life, that i do not put any where near the confidence in studies that the rest of you do. and if you guys live long enough, i have no doubts that you will begin to experience that for yourselves, as well. when financial concerns enter the picture, just kiss honesty good-bye.

atkins, sears, and the rest of the kit and caboodle are making tons and tons and tons of money on this. if they were touting it as a diet for those with diabetic problems, i would not complain. but they are not - they are touting it as the overall best way of eating, for the masses.

for every female like lisa, who is using this low-carb diet to help with her disease, there are a hundred gals using it to "lose those last 5 pounds". and because there is instant water weight, and thus instant weight loss, it goes a long way to confirm in these gals what a great thing they are doing. AND THIS IS WHERE I COME IN. it is not the proper diet to bring optimum health to healthy people.

it may bring some positive results for many. but big deal. many, many people are eating atrociously - just about any change would be better than what they are doing - coffee and donuts for breakfast, fast food for lunch, and frozen dinners for dinner. it doesn't take much to beat that.

hi lisa,
actually i am happy i have a low testosterone level. i use the head on the top of my shoulders to make my decisions - LOL.

it is not abnormally low. i won't be turning into a female - LOL. just on the lower side of normal. of course, i never claimed to be NORMAL - LOL.

http://health.nzoom.com/cda/printab...,190699,00.html

Carbohydrates are your body's main source of energy. Your body converts carbohydrates into fuel (glucose) for energy production. Your muscles store large amounts of glucose in order to supply energy during prolonged exercise. Your brain also requires glucose.

Sometimes lack of fuel or even the foods we choose can make a difference in how the brain works. Because it cannot store glucose, the brain needs a continuous source of fuel from foods.

"Carbohydrate-containing foods should be eaten at each meal and also before, during and after exercise," says Leslie Bonci, registered dietitian and director of Sports Medicine Nutrition at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Centre.

"At meals, carbohydrates (pasta, rice, bread, cereal, fruits and vegetables) should take up about two-thirds of the plate."

Once again, that's an opinion, not a study. Regarding glucose and brain function versus ketones and brain function, this is a study:

Reference:
Amiel, S.A., "Organ Fuel Selection: Brain," The Proceedings of the Nutrition Society, 54(1), 1995, pages 151-155.

Summary:
This review article analyzes fuel utilization of the brain. The brain’s first choice for energy is glucose. However, when glucose is not available, the brain uses ketone bodies. Using ketones meets the energy requirements of the brain and maintains its proper function.

Cardiac muscle actually prefers and functions better on ketones derived from saturated fat then it does glucose.



Drs Bernstein and Schwarzbein do, and not just diabetes, either. Also...just because a doctor publishes a plan and makes money off it does not mean that it does not work, is not healthy or is the equivalent of snake oil. Bad logic there.



You have yet to show that except through subjective, unverifiable information with yourself and opinion.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think a low carb way of eating looks like at maintainance levels?

Just for the record, the above link is not a scientific study, it's a brochure stating personal opinions. No one here to my knowledge claimed there are no such brochures. I really don't know if you can tell what is a scientific study and what isn't.....



All this "life" and you're still in your 40's? You think we're teenagers here?



And vegetarian diet gurus like Onish, Bernard et all, are giving away their books for free? Well, they don't, and they are making a lot of money too. So if that's your argument, then your diet is unhealthy, because the authors made money on it?

Wa'il

i am not being influenced by any doctor, in making my health decisions. not any more. i did listen when all the doctors and scientific studies community were touting the low-fat diet. never was it mentioned that there was a need for the essential fats.

i have cited several examples where studies have been wrong, and one where it was known to be falsified.

i prefer to use my own verifiable results, and those of whom i know, and detailed nutritional tests to show me where i am at. i wish you guys would at least get these tests. they may give you some information that may be of help. i know they certainly increased my knowledge.

however, i do believe that you guys have special needs (those that have diabetes, etc.) of which i do not know much about, so if this helps you, i am happy for you. i do not believe it is best for the average healthy person.

there are studies supporting just about everything. car manufacturer's all have studies that prove their cars did the best in handling, acceleration, etc.

YOU PUT TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON STUDIES. i will continue to preach that to you.

if i want to know about building stresses, i will talk to an engineer. if i want to know about building, i will talk to a carpenter. if i find someone with more stamina than me, i want to know what the heck he is doing.

the minute i find that said information has financial implications, forget it. it will be twisted to match the desired results.

i don't care about these vegetarian doctors. i am surprised that even any of their names sounded familiar. but i think i have heard of ornish. is that dean ornish ? something tells me that he has a radio show. in any case, i have no idea of his beliefs, nor do i have any particular interest in finding out.

i think it was lisa that mentioned that soy protein was not good. i have no doubts she can show me a dozen studies supporting her belief. just a bunch of hooey from the animal-touters.

most everything we read, in the nutrition field, has large financial implications. you got the meat lobby, the dairy guys, the sugar industry, etc., etc.

they flip-flop about eggs faster than a mexican jumping bean. what is the going philosophy this week ?

when all the medical community thought good ole jack was nuts, he just kept preaching what he knew was correct, and of course he was right. you guys can continue to believe in the white coats and all of their studies. i will continue to believe in those who do it, not those who write about it. when you find a doctor who can out-do me, hey then i am interested. until then, no thank you.

gosh lisa, i think my testosterone level just jumped 25 points. so perhaps you guys are good for me after all - LOL.

I am going to throw this out.

Unlike dietitians, I certainly wouldn't recommend one diet for the "masses" or "en Masse". There are many factors to look at when figuring out what works best. Saying that some one is better off being obese and eating a certain eating plan certainly makes no sense (I. E. the high-carb food pyramid).

For instance, a normal weight person with no medical issues shouldn't be too concerned about their diet composition. Someone with five pounds to lose shouldn't start any type of diet, they should start with a little exercise first and move to an eating plan if exercise doesn't produce the desired results. If that eating plan doesn't help the exercise achieve the desired results, try another eating plan or increase exercise or both.

The problem has never really been what the best diet composition for the masses (which damn near killed a lot of us), but what is diet composition works for optimum health for the individual.

Gymeejet, would you agree or disagree with my logic? (notice I have not used any studies )

Later,
wsgts

I know. That's what I told you a few pages ago, and you got offended. Your method is nothing but preaching, based on faith and feelings, with no scientifc or verifibale evidence. We need to have faith in you, to beleive you.....

You get offfended with demands for proof, and rely on just your personal stories. That's fine, I just find it odd you don't realize how ironic that is, and why people react to it with a mix of amusement and doubt.

Wa'il

"if i want to know about building stresses, i will talk to an engineer"

-Unfortunately for you, that engineer will be relying on studies done by others to determine those stresses.

"the minute i find that said information has financial implications, forget it. it will be twisted to match the desired results."

-So I guess this means that anyone who gives a professional opinion for money should be ignored. As a professional engineer who does exactly that for a living I'm confused.

-Ashtaroth

gymeejet, yes, you do need a lot of carbs on days when you're doing a lot of aerobic activity -- IF you're not in ketosis.

If your body has successfully switched to burning its own stored fat, you do not need a lot of carbs to sustain aerobic activity, as I can testify.

I am currently getting my energy from the stored fat around my midsection -- and yes, our bodies WERE designed to work that way, too.

The body is adaptible to more than one kind of diet. Think about it: it had to be, or our ancestors would never have survived.

gymeejet, I've been reading some more of your posts -- and I wonder what all the quarreling is about. I think you're saying -- at least now, anywa -- "I go with what works for me, you LCers go with what works for you."

And I sort of agree with what you say about learning to distrust the white coats. I too have had a number of experiences where medical or scientific gospel turned out to be a dangerous half truth that actually harmed me. You do have to trust yourself.

And you put too much emphasis on personal opinion and unverifiable evidence. Given the choice between someone's subjective opinion, based on who knows what and a sound study where I can read what they did as well as the results they got as well as the number of participants in the study, I'll go with the study every time. If you choose to do otherwise, that's your choice, but I belive that you are missing out.



So how do you explain that the results we are getting with low carb are comparable to those that the studies got? Coincidence? One study doesn't prove much, several that get the same results performed by different groups should get a person's attention, though, as well as thousands of people applying it to their own diets and getting the same results. I'd also like to point out that the person whom you so admire also made money promoting his particular plan and yet you trust what he says without question apparantly.

I'm also noticing that you dodged my question regarding what you think an average days' menu on maintainance low carb would look like. Could it be that you don't know and if you don't how can you possibly argue that your way is better? Your profile indicates that you have read one book on low carb and from your posts it's becoming more and more obvious that you either didn't understand or didn't fully appreciate the principles behind what you read as well as the large number of people to whom this plan has been applied with very good results by a number of physicians.
I'd also be interested in knowing precisely what vitamin, mineral, protein or essential fatty acid you think we all are deficient in and please don't go on about lack of carbs because there is no verified amount of carbs necessary for good health to date; we've already been over that one. There are essential vitamins and minerals, there are essential amino acids, there are essential fatty acids, but there are no essential carbs.