if you dont know the difference betweeen
KETOSIS AND KETOACIDSIS

i suggest you start looking into some field other than biology.

AND dont start spouting medical advice that is not even correct - you could really cause problems for some poor fool who might believe you know what you are talking about.

god i hope you are not becoming a doctor or a nurse or a NUTRITIONIST.

by the way i have a severe family history of diabetes and was well on the diabetic road myself until ATKINS that is, now i no longer need to be periodically monitored for diabetes.

I got this from here:
http://www.ketosis-ketoacidosis-difference.com/

Ketosis: Is it safe? Why do some people say it's dangerous?

On July 7, 2002, the New York Times published "What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?" written by Gary Taubes.

I quote the article: " 'Doctors are scared of ketosis,' says Richard Veech, an N.I.H. [National Institutes of Health]researcher who studied medicine at Harvard and then got his doctorate at Oxford University with the Nobel Laureate Hans Krebs. ''They're always worried about diabetic ketoacidosis. But ketosis is a normal physiologic state."

"Simply put, ketosis is evolution's answer to the thrifty gene. We may have evolved to efficiently store fat for times of famine, says Veech, but we also evolved ketosis to efficiently live off that fat when necessary. Rather than being poison, which is how the press often refers to ketones, they make the body run more efficiently and provide a backup fuel source for the brain. Veech calls ketones ''magic'' and has shown that both the heart and brain run 25 percent more efficiently on ketones than on blood sugar." You can read the full article at www.nyt.com.

Being in ketosis means your body has burned a large amount of fat in response to the fact that it didn't have sufficient glucose available for energy needs. Under everyday conditions, the carbohydrates you eat are converted to glucose, which is the body's primary source of energy. Whenever your intake of carbohydrates is limited to a certain range, for a long enough period of time, you'll reach a point where your body draws on its alternate energy system, fat stores, for fuel.

This condition called dietary ketosis, means your body burns fat and turns it into a source of fuel called ketones. Ketones are produced whenever body fat is burned. When you burn a larger amount of fat than is immediately needed for energy, the excess ketones are discarded in the urine.

Dietary ketosis is among the most maligned and misunderstood concepts in nutrition because it is often confused with ketoacidosis, which is a life-threatening condition most often associated with uncontrolled insulin-deficient Type 1 diabetes. In the Type 1 diabetic, the absence of insulin leads to a toxic build-up of blood glucose and an extreme break-down of fat and muscle tissue. This condition doesn't occur in individuals who have even a small amount of insulin, whether from natural production or artificially administered.

Dietary ketosis, however, is a natural adjustment to the body's reduced intake of carbohydrates as the body shifts its primary source of energy from carbohydrates to stored fat. The presence of insulin keeps ketone production in check so that a mild, beneficial ketosis is achieved. Blood glucose levels are stabilized within a normal range and there is no break-down of healthy muscle tissue.

The most sensitive tests of ketosis ("NMR" and "blood ketone level") show that everyone is in some degree of ketosis every day, particularly after not eating overnight and after exercising. Ketosis is the body's survival system. It is not an abnormality nor does it present any medical danger, except to a Type I insulin-dependent diabetic. The body functions naturally and effectively while in a state of dietary ketosis.

Some of the benefits many people experience while in a state of dietary ketosis for intentional weight loss may include rapid weight loss, decreased hunger and cravings, improved mood, increased energy and, as long as protein intake is adequate, protection of lean muscle mass

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MCG
[B]Wow.. I suppose I should not have put my post in the "war zone" because it seems that a lot of people come in here armed and ready to attack! To individuals such as "btdude" who believe that I "post shit that scares people" because I haven't researched enough. Btdude, I have researched plenty.. and that research has been conducted through MEDICAL textbooks and journals.. not the Dr. Atkins book who is trying to get you to buy his products.

Did not read the Atkins book because why? The book came out years before he started marketing products. tsk tsk tsk
Thats like saying he invented the diet to make money not to help people. Read his history. Thats not why Doctors are Doctors...

Hi everyone

I am no expert and don't pretend to be. I am just a person who started LCing about a month ago and feel great. LCing is not a huge hit in Australia like it is in the US but I'm sure it will be. I am on a version that my naturpath put me on. It is pretty much the same as Atkins but without as much bacon, more lean meat. He told me that my ketosticks should read in the trace to moderate. I didn't ask why but notice that the pinker I am the thirstier I am. I try to stay in the trace because it makes me feel better. anyway enough crapping on. I just wanted to say that his thoughts were that it can be a bit of strain on your body to be in heavy ketosis all the time. He is not a doctor, and doctors here try to talk me out of it because they don't know much about it.

Despite any of this. I think some people here need to take a chill pill and learn to debate a topic with good manners. I would be ashamed to think that one of my family members or friends would talk to another human being in such a rude way regardless of how incorrect they thought someones view point to be. Remember we are all just people after all.

Nadia

You're not going to find much about benign dietary ketosis in medical books because it's not an abnormal medical condition. It's a normal physiologic response of the body to a lack of glucose to be used for energy or lack of calories to supply the body's energy needs in general. The references that you do find in medical textbooks are all based on diabetic ketoacidosis which IS an abnormal medical condition, but as the article above explains is not the same thing as benign dietary ketosis at all. Medical textbooks also have a tendency to cover things that can go wrong with the body, not things that can go right and most of the references that you will find in a medical textbook are related to abnormal physiologic conditions. It's similar to reading an auto repair manual to find out how the car runs when it's not broken.

I'd also like to remind everyone that while this is the war zone and debates are welcome, it should be done without insults or flames. Just the facts, folks.

If Benign Dietary Ketosis is the result of a person burning their own stored fat for fuel, surely Ketosis must occur in all weight loss programs where calories or carbs or even fat is restricted? If a person is losing body fat, through whatever means, be it Low Carb, Weight Watchers or Slim Fast, then BDK must surely occur. Otherwise we'd all be losing our lean tissue and keeping the fat, right?

What I'm trying to get at, is that Ketosis is always associated with Low Carb & especially Atkins. But surely ANYONE losing weight must produce Ketones to some degree?

I've also read that Athletes produce Ketones a lot of the time, especially when in serious training, and no one accuses them of endangering their health.

deejay is right on - I would like to see some study that shows that there is some weightloss program where you burn your fat - the only way to lose it, as far as I know, without being in ketosis. Considering the studies that Atkins and others have cited, that low-fat, high carb dieters lose more of their own muscle mass that lc dieters, I think that lowfat dieters probably produce MORE ketones, and if it is dangerous, they would be the ones to worry about. So the anti lc people shoud give it a rest.

I am not an expert in biology, but I have read a great deal about the effects of insulin on the body. My own personal theory is that ketosis was meant to be the normal state of the body and that the carbohydrate/insulin system is a backup system, only intended for difficult periods when humans were unable to obtain sufficient protein and fat and were forced to eat larger quantities of carbohydrates instead. Why else would eating carbohydrates cause us to store fat while consuming mainly protein and fat allows us to burn fat and stay lean?

And to me the very fact that years of eating way too many carbohydrates and continually flooding our bodies with insulin lessens our sensitivity to insulin and eventually causes the disease of Type 2 diabetes strongly indicates that this is not the normal state of the human body. It may be going too far to say that continuous high levels of insulin act as a slow acting toxin on the body, but I'm not sure.

Just MHO

Karla

There has never, ever been a reported medical case of *anyone's* kidneys blowing up from dietary ketosis. Period.

Yes, your kidneys work a little harder. That's what they're made to do! If you apply the "don't go into ketosis because it's hard on your kidneys" logic to exercise, for example, then we should all stop cardio exercise, since it's hard on your heart. And we shouldn't lift weights, since that damages your muscles.

Doesn't make sense, does it?

A very good link explaining how and when ketones become a problem: http://listserv.lehigh.edu/lists/di...ml/ketones.html

Kristine is right also
We should avoid all exercise because it creates lactic acid (The "burn"). Lactic-acidosis is a very dangerous condition which is 50% fatal.

danny

Reading this person's profile, I have to believe he/she is not at all interested in a Low Carb lifestyle.

This is the typical "hit and run" tactic of a Board Flamer!

I wish we could just ignore these people, then they would fade away... but most of us here are Really Interested in the well-being of the members and try to undo the damage done by bottom dwellers.

... we muddle along.

As a medical Doctor I can tell you this, ketosis is very safe as long as it's done correctly. Everyone who I have talked to and the posts I have read state that everyone is doing it correctly. The only danger is with cholesterol which is really up to debate. Not enough research has been done to say the atkins is a dangerous diet. From my own personal research it's as safe as any LC diet

I suggest you try fighting a battle which we know is dangerous like the #1 drug in america tobacco.


Battousai

But Battousai - surely you must be aware that cigarettes are a fat-free product...

ahh yes fat free, but is it cancer free....