Dear Nance:

Thanks for the kind support. Yes, I am not going to drive myself crazy on this tour. In fact, I have a day without tourists tomorrow to dedicate to organizing my work and myself. But I do love that outstretched hand you extend to me.

Today I made my first visit to the nursing home. My dad looks so much better. I went to his former apartment to clear out his stuff and found a picture of me and him when I was about 3 yrs old. I cried like a baby.

Deanna, take care of that child. She needs to know that someone like you is interested in her and watching out for her.

And Joiz - welcome to the group. We are a caring bunch and we are truly spreading our blessings to all.

I'm off to Vancouver tomorrow to meet my group. We'll go eastward across Canada by train. Hope to get your messages when I check my email.

Big hugs to all and Cheers from Chiqui

Chiqui, I know it's hard when parents let us down for all those years and then have to depend on us at the end. They are the ones that we are supposed to be able to trust to take care of and nurture us. (pattie, this is for you too Love). None of us is issued instructions when we have kids and some of us just should NOT be parents. That's bottom line. It is up to us to do the best we can under challenging conditions and to survive the best way we know how. Lots of really mixed emotions, huh?

There is more than one kind of abuse and my father was the king of a different kind. He never laid a hand on us four kids for the most part. But oh could that man drone on and on and on with his lectures. (Remind you of me maybe?) He was the king of the put down, the dire prediction, the off base conclusions not based on fact but on his own faulty thinking. I was told that because I 'looked' like a 'bad seed' cousin, that I was going to turn out like her. HUH? I was going to be in reform school before I turned twelve...this told to me when I was about 8. My sin? I took 2 cookies instead of one! I was nothing but a whore. That one because a boy actually dared to telephone me when Iwas a junior in high school! He wanted the days English assignment...but to Dad I was a 'whore' and he said it loud enough the boy heard him! Didn't matter that he wouldn't let me date...irrelevant to the need to 'put down'.

Unfortunately, Dad died before we had a chance to really resolve any of the hurt or anger. The closest we came was when he actually told me after Jim and I had been married for about 15 years that 'you were a challenge, but you turned out pretty good 'because' of me". I looked him in the eye and told him..."No. I turned out DAMN good in SPITE of you". That was the day that I took control of my life and he couldn't hurt me any more. He knew that I knew the truth. He died 6 months later.

Whew! THAT was cathartic! Been carrying that crap inside for almost 25 years now! See how 'safe' you ladies make me feel? What a gift that is!

Chiqui, we need to work on some low carb snacks and stuff that you can carry with you on these excursions so that your blood sugar stays more level. Does that sound like a good idea? (Mine dropped to low today and I fell off the wagon HARD! My arse still hurts! LOL!) Why not spend some time..if you can...making a list of the snack foods you like to nibble on and we'll come up with some recipies or something so you go off prepared. There are some great ideas and suggestions on another bulletin board that I go to that I can bring over here. It's all in the planning to be good to YOU!

Have a terrific trip. Hope your group is a good group and not a bunch of funky monkies. Check in with us when you can and know that you will be missed!

Have a safe and happy journey!
Nance

Sounds like a lot of us had a hard time as children. My papa was a heavy drinker and beat my mom and abused us kids. And a JW, but when I was 22 he said he was sorry. He also ended up in a care center and I took care of him. He only knew who I was once when he was there. He died without knowing me. I guess we all have a lot to carry. I hope everyone forgives and forgets.

Dear Nance & Fat: Oh, how we kids suffer. Our parents drink and rave on or ignore us. And we little ones have to stand there and take it all in. The sad fact is that when parents say something, we think it's the truth, eg you're a whore, you'll never amount to anything, you're in my way, you were a mistake, and so on. Then we spend the rest of our lives trying to prove it's not true.

I'm glad you got a chance to level with your father before he died. That's exactly what I did - and am doing with mine. I already did it with my mother so she can't insult me anymore.

Thanks for the idea of snacks. it's hard to do on the confined environment of a train where all the food is included. I have some great ideas for when I get home from this jaunt.

Take care all... Cheers from Chiqui

Hi all
and a big welcome to you Joyce!!
Looks like we all come from a not so "Leave it to Beaver Families" but then hey,did you ever see your do the house work with pearls on or where them to a picnic?
I think the way we were brought up has made us all strong and fighters..but we just learned that many times food is and was our salvation from the bad things around us.
So now we just have to funnel that strength into ourseleves once agin and use that power to guide us each to a new future and a new us!!
Nice to have others around who understand why and where we came from.
Giving you all a big Hug.
Chiqui
here is one of my fav snacks (thanks Nancy!)
thinly sliced salami..nucked for about 2 min. nice crispy like chips ..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am always dreaming of the future becasue that is where I will spend the rest of my life (and not fat).

Well, I know for sure I am a fighter, and nothing brings out my strength more than someone telling me I can't do something. I think that when we get older we age much faster because we lose focus on something to get excited about. When we are young we are full of goals for the future and optimistic that we can achieve them. But, I find that at my age, people don't really have any goals, and are just sitting around watching the days go by. Our culture is so youth oriented that it's easy to give up on life. I'm really excited about body building and since I have a trainer to help me I'm optimistic about what I can accomplish because he encourages me and never fails to tell me how awsome I am to be doing what I'm doing. I think that it's exciting to focus on health as a life style, and spending time on this site every morning stimulates my mind and gives me that "I'm learning something new" fix that I need so badly. Not to mention the feeling that I have peers that I can communicate with. (Since I am new to Tennessee I am missing that) We are so lucky to have places like this that supply support, information, encouragement and fun. And now that I am experiencing more energy, I am starting to think about planning things to do on the week ends that I would enjoy. There is a lot going on around me but I haven't taken any steps to get out there yet.

Late Morning to all out there....
Well Joizienew, sounds like you are getting your life all together. That is wonderful. I am so happy for you.....some like me are at home doing nothing.... Unless you want to count caregiving to my mom.....It does tie me down, but I am happy to do it. It is hard on my 15 yr old daughter, because she does not get to go places with me any more. My DH and her spend time together, and that is good. She is learning to drive and she finds that very exciting.

Unfortunately, when I was 16 I married an alcoholic like my Papa and he ended up abusing me and the children. I thought I was going to change him....NOT! So now my son is an alcoholic and an abuser to his 5 children. That is how he was raised, so that is how he is now. His wife also is abusive toward her children and leave them out of all family functions...such as being huged, loved. It worries me that the children will follow in the same footsteps as their parents. All I can do is pray for them.......My daughter is an alcoholic and a drug user. She has 4 children and an alcoholic husband. Sometimes I feel that I ruined their lives by living with their dad so long. I should have left long before I did. By then it was too late.

Hey Fat, Thanks for taking the time to read my stuff and respond. I can tell you that parenting (especially being the mom) can fill anyone with guilt. I lost my daughter when at age 32 she got on her new motorcycle with a blood alcohol level of .24, and crashed about 2 minutes later, killing her instantly. I have spent many years working as a drug/alcohol counselor and it was so hard to accept that I could not help my own daughter because she could not accept help and just wasn't ready. Still, I can get to beating myself up over how I raised my kids every once in awhile. I am excellent at counseling others in this area, but not so good when it comes to my own guilt. My oldest son is also an alcoholic and his family suffers. His wife is a typical co dependent and this hurts the kids too. We must remember that addiction is passed down from generation to generation, but it doesn't start from 'bad parenting'. What thing that helps me is the expression: I will not "should" on myself today. So the next time you start beating yourself up for what ever, tell yourself that, and move on....love from me to you girl.....

joizienew, welcome to this fabulous group! I LOVE your attitude!

I feel more alive since I got this stupid computer than I have in the last 15 years! I have a curious mind and now I can look it up and satisfy the curiosity. That curiosity is what led me to look for recipes and end up on this wonderful site. I give thanks every day for that happening.

DeAnna, you did NOT fail your kids. I believe that alcoholism IS a disease. Your kids are more susecptable to having it because of the lineage...they didn't 'get' it because of anything you did. Anybody caring enough to take in an elderly parent cannot be a 'bad' person in my book. You be nice to you!

I watched my husband battle alcohol dependence for the first 22 years of our marriage. I'll give him a modicum of credit as he chose to drink in a bar and not bring it home to the kids and I, but the kids were still harmed by it. I learned some great lessons by attending Alanon classes, but the biggest lesson I learned was choosing the wrong door and ending up in an AA meeting one night. That's a story for another day.


I have to run for now, but wanted to welcome Joyce to the group. Everybody...take special care!
Nance

Thanks Joizienew, I really appreciate your love and understanding. I am so sorry you lost your daughter. I cannot even imagine what that must be like for you. My daughter is killing herself with a slow death that she cannot even see coming. I have tried to help her, but she is blind to her life style, and her husband also is just as blind.

Steaks, thanks to you too. My mom used to send me into a bar when I was a little kid, to ask my papa for money for food. He never gave it to me...... So many memories of childhood and then adulthood going through what our mom's went threw. One would think I could learn something from all that. My first husband died at the age of 45 from abusing himself with the addiction. Sad, very sad for the children.

Joyce, I agree with Fat (Fit and Trim!, AKA DeAnna!) about the tragedy of losing your daughter. I have always felt that that would be the very worst thing a parent would have to endure. I cannot in my wildest dreams comprehend the pain you must be in. I wonder....does the process of being a counselor for others help you heal...or is that a pain that never goes away?
Forgive me if that is insensitive to ask. I am really interested if you should choose to talk about your daughter. That was an awkward way of saying we're here to listen any time you need to talk about her.

DeAnna, your poor mother. That had to have been hard for her to send a child into a bar. My son was always hurt because Jim would miss his bseball games in order to drink beer. Many of Tony's games were in a direction where we had to drive right by the local 'watering hole' and Tony would see the pickup there and know Dad wouldn't make to another one of his games. Heartbreaking. Now, however, they have resolved all of those issues and have a marvelous relationship. It took years though.

For anybody who grew up with an alcoholic parent(s) or spouse, I think the very best thing that you can do is attend Alanon meetings. They're everywhere and they really REALLY help.

chiqui, I'm thinking about you! Hope the tour is going well!

Have a glorious evening!
Nance

I tried AA once, it was a disaster, they said that if I drank at all I too was an alcoholic. I called on the phone to an 800 number and the lady on the other end told me it was my fault my husband drank because I was driving him to it. I hung up. I also gave up.

Hello from Germany,
Have been reading all your posts...and the tears come into my eyes for all the pain you have all gone through. But I see a very comman strand and that is you all have the fight and power inside to concure our problems together..
This grougp should becalled
Fit,Fiesty and over Fifty
You all give me the desire to keep on going!
Today went to Dr. no Knee operation! Just need some injections to rebuild torn cartilage..then I can once agin start my walking program
Went to AA with a friend ocouple times..hmmmm they also told me I was an alcholic if I drank any kind of alchol. I was there to support a friend and I was torn down hmmm I got the feeling they were looking for soemone to put the blame on. But it is a sickness you can not blame some one for that. Give a helping hand and support and then they have to learn to walk on their own..and this is so hard to start those baby steps..amd as we all know when you learn to walk you also stumble from time to time..but you also get back up and you are stronger.
Happy LCing all

I have grown spiritually throughout my life as I am I 'seeker'. I had to leave the Catholic Church years ago, mainly because they insisted that I wear blinders among other problems, and I am grateful that I had the courage to do that. I became 'born again' and was baptised in a river. This was something that was perfect for me at that time in my life, but I also grew out of, and moved on. My point here is that my spirituality is what keeps me going and growing, as it keeps growing. I have always been attracted to any belief system that makes me feel good, not condemed as a sinner, but loved as a precious child of a loving and generous God. The pain of loss is one that never leaves, but it does not remain constant. After my daughters death I told my story to women who were in prison for driving under the influence. I cried through those talks and was able to just let it all out. At times I expressed my anger and at other times I wept for my loss of a wonderful child. I don't know if it made any difference with the women who heard it, but I worked to cleanse and heal me. Now, when the pain comes on, I take the time to acknowledge it and grieve. Then it passes, and I carry on. One of the most up lifting books I have, and read over and over is, "Conversations With God". I have many books that are inspirational and uplifting and I refer to them often. I also recommend anything by Melody Beattie. May I quote her here:
"Stay committed to your growth process until you wake up one morning and ask yourself, "What is this strange thing I am feeling?" Then know what the answer is: The answer is Joy."

Joyce that was beautiful! Thank you so much for sharing it with us. I get the feeling that I am going to learn so much from all of you guys. Rusty is stretching my mind; Chloesue has me up and moving again and now Joyce is indirectly encouraging my spritual growth. pattie, chiqui and Fat are making me aware of the fact I'm not alone in the pain of how alcoholism affects families. I feel blessed that I found this forum and I literally RUN to my computer each morning to see what new discoveries and friends await me. Life is GOOD!

Fat and pattie, I am shocked at your treatment at AA! Maybe that is how AA itself responds since that is a tenet that they cling to for THEM, but it is so opposite my experience with them! Alanon is for the families of alcoholics and they taught me that Jim's drinking was HIS problem. How I reacted to it was MY problem...and the choice of how I reacted was mine. They taught me that there was NOTHING I could do to stop his drinking....that the only person in this world that I can change is ME! Like with this forum, I was surrounded by people who shared the same problems I had and it gave me a place to vent, rant, cry, laugh and finally...most importantly, I think...to finally accept and to heal. It culminated with me giving the responsibility for Jim's drinking BACK TO HIM. No more recriminations. No more making excuses for him. No more tears and threats and begging and brow beating...etc, ad nauseum. I told him I understood that he had a disease and that, while I would always LOVE him, there was nothing I could do to HELP him. I also made it clear that I had no desire to hang around and watch him kill himself or somebody else. Our good fortune was that within six months he got another DUII and decided that drinking was something he just could not do anymore. He quit cold turkey and we spent the next several years getting reacquainted as a couple and a family. To this day, he will argue that he is not an alcoholic. The term is not important. The fact is that he cannot drink and control the urges to drink more that alcohol bring out so he chooses not to drink for now.

patti, you need to go over to the 'remodel our forum' thread and add your name suggestion to the list so it doesn't get lost. I like it too! My problem is I like all of them for different reasons!

Nance