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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jun-17-13, 17:08
amergin's Avatar
amergin amergin is offline
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Plan: Low carb, suff. protein
Stats: 115/103/95 Male 191cm
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: dublin
Default Prepare for the “Resistant Starch” Assimilation; Resistance is Futile

I'm posting this for information and to provoke thought and discussion.

Just to define what I am discussing as Resistant Starch (RS).
It's starch that is NOT broken down when it exits the small intestine.
(This or similar has come up under various guises on these boards before.)

http://freetheanimal.com/2013/04/re...resistance.html

There have been two main problems in many of the previous refs.
Problem One is that some sources have recommended foods with RS levels of 5-10%, with the rest being plain old carb, or worse. Examples being the ubiquitous "healthywholegrains", Dreamfields, etc.
Problem two is that once you heat most of this stuff it changes from being RS to just plain old cooked food, that is it's no longer RS.

Again I'm posting this as some people may find it interesting, or at least thought-provoking. I have to say it makes sense to me and ties up some loose ends of thoughts on various issues.

(I do however expect some of the usual suspects will be marching on my house with the flaming torches by nightfall!)
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jun-26-13, 09:13
catcookie's Avatar
catcookie catcookie is offline
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Posts: 382
 
Plan: atkins diet
Stats: 200/201/140 Female 5'5"
BF:
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Location: Boston, MA
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What is Resistant Starch? I've never heard of it? It is anything like that 30bananas diet nonsense?
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Jul-11-13, 14:37
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Resistant Starch. Friend or Foe?

Reasons you might want to NOT eat RS.

I'll give you my reason: It makes my autoimmune arthritis flare something awful.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jul-11-13, 16:07
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

I think I'll resist. Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with lots of veggies, butter, good quality meats. If I have to eat potatoes cold, and bananas green, frankly I'd rather be without. I just don't miss them that much.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 06:00
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Elizellen Elizellen is offline
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Plan: Atkins (DANDR)
Stats: 290/141/130 Female 65.5 inches
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
If I have to eat potatoes cold, and bananas green, frankly I'd rather be without.

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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 07:07
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Something I'd like to see addressed--is the effect of resistant starch on glycemic response strongest for the actual food it comes attached to?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22655177

Quote:
Novel resistant potato starches on glycemia and satiety in humans.
Haub MD, Louk JA, Lopez TC.
Source
Food and Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Human Nutrition, Kansas State University, 206 Justin Hall, Manhattan, KS 66506-1400, USA.
Abstract
This study was designed to determine the efficacy of two novel type-four resistant starches (RS4) on postprandial glycemia and ratings of fullness. Volunteers (n = 10) completed completed five interventions designed to determine the glycemic and satiety (fullness) effects of the starches (38 g,) alone and when added on top of available carbohydrate. The dose of the starches provided 30 g of resistant starch per treatment. The treatments were: commercial resistant starch added to water (PF-), noncommercial resistant starch added to water (PR-), dextrose solution (DEX, 50 g), and DEX with PenFibe starch (PF+), and DEX with the non-commercial starch added (PR+). Blood glucose was measured in the fasted state and following the randomly assigned treatments at 30, 45, 60, 90, and 120 minutes post-consumption. A visual analog scale was used to determine fullness at each time point. There were no differences in the glucose incremental areas under the curve (iAUC) for PF+ and PR+ compared with DEX. The PF- and PR- treatments had decreased (P < 0.05) iAUCs for glucose compared with DEX, PF+, and PR+. There were no treatment differences for RoF. The dose (38 g) of starches did not to alter glucose responses when added on top of 50 g of dextrose.


In this study it does nothing to change the response to added dextrose.

I understand the thing that makes potatoes such a high-glycemic food is that the starch molecules have many branches--so there's many points for starch-degrading enzymes to work on. If ten or twenty percent of the starch were resistant, you'd have little roadblocks working against the effectiveness of those enzymes--as if there were less points to attack. Do the benefits of resistant starch really have anything to do with fermentation in the gut? That would mostly be downstream so to speak, once most of the absorbable carbohydrate had been absorbed, wouldn't it?

Statements like this from Tatertot;


Quote:
Edibility-wise, potato starch is not bad. It mixes well with any liquid and has no real taste and is not gritty, mealy, or pastey. I've eaten up to 4TBS (48g), which is 30-35g of RS, on an empty stomach with no digestive problems. I think it is a very good addition to your arsenal of RS foods.


Give me a not-so-strange sense of deja-vu. Anybody else have memories of choking down course, fibery cereals--as if eating 30 grams of fiber at breakfast with skim milk could make atonement for donuts/pastries off the coffee truck at breaktime?

What happens long-term?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14985212

Quote:
Abstract
bstract
BACKGROUND:
Legumes are recommended for better glucose control in persons with diabetes. Whether subjects with normal insulin sensitivity would also benefit from legume consumption is not clear.
OBJECTIVE:
Our goal was to compare the effects on insulin sensitivity of chickpea-based and wheat-based foods when eaten as single meals or over 6 wk.
DESIGN:
Acute and long-term studies were conducted in healthy middle-aged men and women. In the acute study (n = 19), plasma glucose, insulin, and calculated homeostasis model assessment (HOMA; an index of insulin sensitivity) were measured on 3 separated days over 3 h after the subjects consumed 50-g available carbohydrate loads from either chickpeas, wheat-based foods, or white bread. The long-term comparison (n = 20) was a randomized, crossover study in which chickpea-based and wheat-based foods were eaten for 6 wk each. Plasma glucose, insulin, and HOMA were measured in the fasting state and 2 h after a 75-g glucose load.
RESULTS:
After single meals, plasma glucose was substantially lower 30 and 60 min after the chickpea meal than after the other 2 meals (P < 0.05), and plasma insulin and HOMA were lower at 120 min (P < 0.05 for both). Despite this, the long-term study failed to show significant differences in plasma glucose, insulin, or HOMA either in the fasting state or after a glucose load.
CONCLUSION:
Compared with a wheat-based meal, a single chickpea-based meal led to a lesser response in plasma glucose and insulin concentrations, but this was not translated into long-term improvement in insulin sensitivity over 6 wk, at least in healthy subjects..


Make it harder to digest food, and what happens? Does the body just roll over, put up with it? Or does it work harder to digest it? Upregulate starch-digesting enzyme output--maybe even increase the speed with which the non-resistant starch part of the diet is broken down and enters the bloodstream as glucose?


Tatertot;

Quote:
An experiment I did recently with potato starch told me all I need to know. I have been tracking my fasting blood glucose and post-prandial resonse to carbs with a OneTouch glucose monitor. I know that a potato with 40g carbs will cause a PP glucose spike of over 175 at 1 hour and return to normal at 3 hours. I drank 44g of potato starch mixed with water on an empty stomach and checked my glucose level every 15 minutes...I never saw a rise in BG more than 5 points above my fasting level. This proved to me that potato starch causes absolutely no glycemic load. Furthermore, 4 hours later, I ate a large, plain potato and found that my 1 hour PP glucose level was under 140 and returned to normal in less than 2 hours! Thus proving to me that RS has a powerful 'Second Meal Effect" as described here. I think it will turn out that as far as Low Glycemic Index foods are concerned—raw potato starch is the lowest!


Second-meal effects are nice. Third, fourth.... n, n+1th effects would be nicer.

I know some people on a low-carb diet seem to have poor response to a glucose load. Last time I checked my glucose response to a meal that included a potato, my blood glucose never went up above about 126. (I think that's the highest measure I've had, ever. Low carb gives me an every-meal effect.

Quote:
(I do however expect some of the usual suspects will be marching on my house with the flaming torches by nightfall!)

Martin must be having trouble getting his torch lit or something.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 07:17
Sagehill Sagehill is offline
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Plan: My own
Stats: 250/161.4/130 Female 5'3"
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Location: Central FL
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Or maybe he's eating potatoes himself.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 08:37
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,865
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
I think I'll resist. Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with lots of veggies, butter, good quality meats. If I have to eat potatoes cold, and bananas green, frankly I'd rather be without. I just don't miss them that much.

You can buy potato starch that is supposed to be higher RS than any particular food eaten whole. Like 78% or something.

Quote:
Give me a not-so-strange sense of deja-vu. Anybody else have memories of choking down course, fibery cereals--as if eating 30 grams of fiber at breakfast with skim milk could make atonement for donuts/pastries off the coffee truck at breaktime?

Nothing fibery at all about potato starch. It mixes in water, is a bit chalky.
I tested it by drinking a T. of it in water and it only raised my BG by 5 points and didn't kick me out of ketosis. Why would you do it? I was experimenting with it to see if it might help my gut. It didn't. In fact, it made my autoimmune disease flare up, but that's a long story.

That article I posted yesterday discussed the 4 different varieties of RS. RS4 is a man-made RS.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Fri, Jul-12-13 at 09:04.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 08:44
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
You can buy potato starch that is supposed to be higher RS than any particular food eaten whole. Like 78% or something.

I tested it by drinking a T. of it in water and it only raised my BG by 5 points and didn't kick me out of ketosis.



WHY would I want to eat it, though? What am I getting that I'm not getting from allowed foods?
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 08:49
MandalayVA's Avatar
MandalayVA MandalayVA is offline
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Posts: 2,545
 
Plan: whole foods
Stats: 240/180/140 Female 63 inches
BF:too f'ing much
Progress: 60%
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Default

Fad of the Moment. This too shall pass.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 09:05
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,865
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
WHY would I want to eat it, though? What am I getting that I'm not getting from allowed foods?
I edited my response as to why I used it, but you were posting already.
Quote:
Fad of the Moment. This too shall pass.

Agreed.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-13, 09:13
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I edited my response as to why I used it, but you were posting already.



Thanks, I would not have seen your edit.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jul-13-13, 10:11
Turtle2003's Avatar
Turtle2003 Turtle2003 is offline
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Posts: 1,449
 
Plan: Atkins, Newcastle
Stats: 260/221.8/165 Female 5'3"
BF:Highest weight 260
Progress: 40%
Location: Northern California
Default

I tried the Potato Hack a few months ago. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, or lost, right?

I did learn one thing. When my blood glucose soars into diabetic regions (think 250) my Nova Max meter flashes warnings and shows a message that I should check my ketones, obviously thinking I'm an out of control diabetic. I have never seen blood glucose readings like that since I got the meter a year or so ago.

I seem to be pre-diabetic, with morning fasting levels of about 105-115 most of the time. When I check after eating a typical low carb meal I see very little increase in my sugar levels. Eating something like bacon and eggs hardly nudges my readings up at all. If I cheat a bit with too many carbs in a meal I usually will see readings of 140 or so, which quickly come down.

As noted above, the potatoes drove my readings insanely high. Hours after eating the readings sometimes dropped down into the 80s or even 70s (reactive hypoglycemia?) I did the hack for six days and lost only 4 lbs. My post-prandial blood sugar readings did slowly improve from those first catastrophic levels, but remained pretty scary. Interestingly, my morning FBG readings improved a lot, so if I had only been checking those readings I would have thought I was doing very well indeed.

The experience makes me think that if I just gave up on diet control and ate a SAD diet I'd quickly turn into a true diabetic.

I would strongly advise anyone wanting to try this Potato Hack to make sure to obtain and use a blood glucose monitor. You need to know how your body is really reacting.
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