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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 09:21
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Back in the day, gallbladders were considered such an important organ that gallbladder disorders were treated by "cleaning it out" and leaving it there.


I wonder how they cleaned it out?
It would seem to me that it's there for a very good reason..
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  #17   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 11:33
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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The gall stones can be surgically removed or, if not too huge, eased out by eating more fat (increasing the amount slowly if you've been eating a low-fat diet). Most gall-bladder attacks occur in low-fat eaters when they binge or overindulge on fat, and they blame the fat, not the low-fat diet that caused the stones in the first place.
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  #18   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 15:33
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
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Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Back in the day, gallbladders were considered such an important organ that gallbladder disorders were treated by "cleaning it out" and leaving it there.

I want to read the same thing you read. Got a link?

I have an idea how they flushed it. Just push real hard. It's not easy to do without direct access, but I think it's still possible. Otherwise, cut open, reach in and push real hard. It's a strange kind of surgery where nothing is removed, but then we do that all the time when we fix cars and other things.

I remember several decades ago, some guy developed an exercise based on a belly dance. Eventually it became known as La Technique Nadeau, named after the guy. I saw the TV show where he first appeared, Tele Service on the TeleQuebec channel. OK, so basically the technique is to twist the pipes to unclog them, in the hope that the obstruction gets pushed through. Nadeau was talking about heart disease and blocked arteries, and the parallel with plumbing and how that's pretty much what we do to unclog flexible pipes like a garden hose. That's where he got the idea. The way I understand it, the obstruction isn't pushed directly, instead local pressure is created by the twisting motions at different points in sequence, a bit like the small intestine that contracts in a sequence. This pressure then acts on the obstruction to push it through. It's possible that the overall motion is more of a back-and-forth rather than a one-way sequence, but the result should be the same.

Anyways, for our purpose, a blocked pipe is a blocked pipe whatever its purpose, and the technique should have some effect on the gallbladder and the connecting pipes. If I'm not mistaken about the back-and-forth, this should give a potential advantage for the gallbladder, since now instead of trying to push the obstruction straight through, it could end up back in the gallbladder and sit there for a while as it gets acted on by fresh bile, eventually growing small enough to go through the pipe without much trouble. If there's only one stone, the pipe would now be clear, bile could go through normally. It's an idea. Either way, it's a pipe and like any other pipe it can probably be cleared like that. Something to think about.

I guess La Technique Nadeau would be the least intrusive choice. Personally, I do it sometimes to get things moving in there when I get acute pain. It works for me to some extent. No, I don't think my problem is in the gallbladder. The gut is full of pipes, any one of which can get clogged for all kinds of reasons.
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  #19   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 16:12
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
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About blaming fat for a gallbladder attack. In a bit of irony, I remember a lengthy discussion with a low-fat advocate. At one point we were talking about the Bellevue all-meat trial, specifically the OGTT test and the subsequent infection, and glucose in the urine which would otherwise indicate diabetes. Here, my counterpart blamed the all-meat diet, i.e. everything before the event. With the gallbladder, the years of a low-fat diet is never blamed, it's all about that single high-fat meal.

I'd written some deep-end sarcasm but changed my mind. Instead, I'll just say that as a rule, all parts of the whole are essential. From there, it's a matter of deciding which one we can get by without. I wanted to say "live without", but "get by without" is more appropriate, I think.
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  #20   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 17:29
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I wonder how they cleaned it out?
It would seem to me that it's there for a very good reason..


I mean they took out the stones and sludge and left the organ. Much more sensible than now.
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 18:28
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
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Now my question is will the medical establishment bring back those old methods??

A long forgotton treatmetn for epilepsy ( high fat diet) has been brought back. Last I knew some 15+ drugs were available for this, so what brought the old treatmetn back?
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 18:30
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
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Dr Berg talks about the bile collecting in the gall bladder so enough bile can be ejected when a large fat meal needs it. He indicates that even the fat soluable vitamins are not well absorbed in a GI that only trickles bile 24/7 because the gall bladder has been removed.

I have noticed doctors do a POOR job of telling patients the down side of a surgery.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Tue, Mar-13-18 at 18:43.
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  #23   ^
Old Tue, Mar-13-18, 18:37
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
Oh yes, the drug commercials are horrible and one after another of frightful side effects. I hear that in Canada they don't allow that on TV. We need to ban it here. What the drug companies are doing is having the patient request certain drugs that have been advertised...Soon they'll get rid of the middle man, Doctors

I would love to find a Holistic doctor too!!


The drug ads used to be not allowed. APparently they influenced enough legislators.
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 05:58
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I have noticed doctors do a POOR job of telling patients the down side of a surgery.


Heck yes.

I was recently reading an account of a diagnostic procedure on a young man with a mysterious abdominal problem. After he went home from it, he had distressing occurrences of severe pain and the ejection of blood from places where that wasn't supposed to happen.

Panicked, he called the doctor's office, where he was told this was "entirely normal" and he could expect to experience this for "the next six months."

Okay then. I am asking questions moving forward with anything but blood draws. And even then I am going to be wary. Because this kind of carelessness is routine.
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  #25   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 09:46
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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I looked up a Gastroenterologist doctor (that my DD and I have been to), on a web-site with an index of how much compensation a doctor is getting from drug companies and was floored that this one doc was receiving over $80,000 as compared to the national average which is about $2000.
Every appointment he diverts the conversation with stories and as my daughter said to me, so as to not spend the time saying IDK what's wrong with you!
He passes out bags of all sorts of NEW pills that screw with the immune system because everything is an overactive immune response.
He's got drug company people coming and going out of the door every time we've seen him.....They bring huge trays of sandwiches, drinks, starbucks, donuts for the whole office....etc

Here is the link if you want to look up a doctor.
https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/se...me-and-location
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  #26   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 14:52
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 225/224/163 Female 5'8"
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Location: Massachusetts
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OMG!! THe truth is terrifying.

I just spent a few hours looking at Dr Berg's utube videos, and I can only catch a few slightly not fully explained errors.

THen I watched , Gerson video, to round out information that I search for. THe lady floored me. Far more detailed information than I get from a doctor---some in line with current recommends like limiting beef, but she explains why. She explained why animal meats need to be eliminated during cancer treatment. Just to be clear, some information seems suspect but I would love to see this method be seriously studied. Oh wait, no money in changing ones diet!

My mothers oncologist just pushes for more chemo, radiation and targeted experimental therapy. NOT FOR ME.

Perhaps the better fats are vegetable, organic, because the feeding of commercial meats is loaded withpesticides, herbicides and fungecides. THey limit the number of insect particles allowed in grain products like flour, but these fat- soluable endocrine disrupters are ok. I would rather eat insects--humans are designed to consume them. NOT the pesticides.

Ya, im rethinking food sources......and what to plant like apple trees and strawberries and blackberries.

Rethinking what I feed my chickens and ducks......

Our food sources are badly contaminated.

Otherwise.... we have a gall bladder for a reason. If not for meals with meat... then why?

( Im questioning everything I was taught and looking to verify
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 21:55
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Location: Texas
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I've really been enjoying Dr. Berg's videos since you posted them I've watched several last night and even this morning and learned so much!

I wonder if it would even be possible to find a surgeon who would clean out the Gallbladder instead of removing it these days? But then, when you're n that condition, it's not like you can go window shopping..

When DD3 raised 25 chickens we had to search to find organic or no antibiotic chicken scratch. Unfortunately the end cost is outrageous.
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  #28   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 22:19
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 225/224/163 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 2%
Location: Massachusetts
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yes, the use of pesticides have driven down the prices. there was a time when only expensive feed was available. which is why most chickens ctuised the barnyard at will.

Better to prevent gall bladder issues. and prevent other issues too. just a little fat will do it.
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Mar-14-18, 23:24
Zei Zei is offline
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Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/185/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
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Location: Texas
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About those earlier comments wondering how to get gall stones out of the gall bladder, I recall reading something but have no idea by who or where, that claimed something (what?) could be taken which would soften the stones so they could be expelled. Anyone out there reading this who has a gall stone problem, perhaps awareness this might be a possible form of treatment as opposed to surgery being their only option could help? Sorry I can't provide more information, but maybe someone who needs it might be able to search it down and make use if it's a viable option?
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Mar-15-18, 15:04
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
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Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
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Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I wonder if it would even be possible to find a surgeon who would clean out the Gallbladder instead of removing it these days?
Doubt that due to possible malpractice claims -- it's not standard procedure. Neither is sonic ablation via endoscopy either
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