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  #31   ^
Old Thu, Mar-28-02, 09:37
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Posts: 18,796
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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Li'l Daisy - I agree. I'd never force my beliefs on someone else, but I *firmly* believe that whatever you believe in, you should put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something, don't just complain about it - withdraw your financial support. Money talks in our society. I think if people knew the conditions of factory farms, they'd think twice about what they're supporting. Instead, everyone thinks farms are like they are in the movie "Babe."

Personally, I'm not necessarily against meat consumption - we are carnivores by nature - but I choose not to support an industry that a) treats animals as if they're already dead and doesn't care how they suffer before they're slaughtered, and b) overmedicates them with disregard for the fact that *we* then consume it.

...but I guess I'm preaching to the choir here.
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  #32   ^
Old Mon, Apr-01-02, 10:40
captxray captxray is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 354
 
Plan: Neanderthin
Stats: 269/176/165 Male 68"
BF:55+%/23%/15%
Progress: 89%
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
Post I was only kidding...somewhat...

Hello, Kristine.

You are very right-on about cattle, chickens and pigs (and lambs, and...) being fed a lot of grain...at fattening time on feedlots...yuk! My wife's family owns a meat packing plant and feedlots. They are awful places...the feedlots, I mean. And the conditions of chickens and pigs being kept in "factories" in pens no bigger than about three animals in size is despicable! We should have some respect for the food we eat and choose to put into our own bodies. I don't like the idea of eating an animal who suffered through its entire life, living in conditions that made it sick, mentally and physically. However, I grew up on a farm and still eat range fed animals...that are not fed grains. Grains are very bad for the animals (and us) who weren't designed to eat them...full of nasty phytates and lectins, etc...Not only are grains bad for all of us (humans and ruminants and dogs and cats by causing most of the autoimmune diseases[such as arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, lupus, MS, cancer, obesity, etc.] we and our animals get) but they are very bad for the native animals who are living in the fields where the crops are being raised. Actually, they don't live very long...they are disked, poisoned, shot, and otherwise "eliminated" because they are considered "pests." Ruminants, on the other hand, don't kill many animals in the fields where they eat and poop. And, contrary to popular belief, most ruminants in the world eat their grass on land that won't support anything but grass and sagebrush. If you don't believe me, take a drive through Nevada, or Montana, or Eastern Oregon, or Eastern California, or Arizona, or New Mexico, or Utah, Idaho, North and South Dakota...where most of the ruminants are raised... in the summer time and see what grows on those huge 100,000 acre ranches. Although, most of them are put on feedlots during the last two weeks of their lives and fed (yukkky poo poo) grains and kept in disgusting overpopulated captivity, they do not eat nearly enough grain to cause the utter destruction to most of the species that have been destroyed by the farming industry, worldwide, that is supported by HUMAN consumption. So, I was kidding, but only a little. I get really tired of being accused of supporting a lifestyle that is destroying our world by a lifestyle that is supporting the destruction our world through the destruction of most of the many species of plants and animals who have grown and lived in the areas overtaken by agriculture in the past 10,000 years. Not all vegans or vegetarians say this about my lifestyle, so I surely don't put all people of that persuasion in that category, but I have a lot of liberal friends who think that I'm the bad guy, and I get really tired of the hypocracy and dishonesty in the ranks of certain people.
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  #33   ^
Old Wed, Mar-07-12, 04:47
Banting Banting is offline
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Posts: 13
 
Plan: Vegetarian
Stats: 208/190/168 Male 70 inches
BF:
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Hi Jericho
I am reading and using The Vegetarian Low-Carb Diet by Rose Elliot and it has got my low-carb diet working again after not losing any weight during a month. She is primarily a cook, so has some tasty stuff in her book as well as a detailed plan. In the final analysis I think you need to count carbs but the book relieves you of this by doing it for you.
This is the only low-carb diet/cook book aimed exclusively at vegetarians that I have found. I would love to know of any more out there.
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  #34   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-12, 00:10
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
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Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
Hi Jericho
I am reading and using The Vegetarian Low-Carb Diet by Rose Elliot.

Hello, Banting!

I'm new here as well. I think you might be interested in my "getting to know you" thread: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=440407

I read the Elliot book last week (not all of it - just the beginning part where she lays out all of the pertinent details). It seems pretty cool, and I'm doing something fairly similar, but adapting it a bit.

First off, I'm vegan, so no eggs and dairy. Also, I'm currently doing c. 100-113 carbs a day instead of her suggested 60-80 (or less). Also, since she is a food writer and not a nutritionist, I'm not quite sure the nutrition of her eating plan is 100% optimal. I don't think she stresses optimal nutrition enough. Specifically, I have some concerns that the eating plan would be somewhat low in the B vitamins, iron, magnesium, potassium and zinc (and possibly a few other things). I also think she unnecessarily prohibits legumes. I have been eating a decent amount of beans and lentils and still losing weight. Legumes are such an important protein source for vegans and vegetarians, so I think it's best to figure out how to adapt the diet to accommodate the carb content. After all, at some point most people that low-carb eventually get to a point where they start eating more carbs again, right? Why not include beans from the get-go? Same thing with nuts. Yeah, you should count the carbs from nuts for sure, but I don't see any reason to limit intake when you're low-carbing. I think one should cut carbs in other areas before they'd ever think "man, I'd love some almonds right now, but I can't afford to take in the 3 carbs!" That's ridiculous.

But in general, I like her approach to eating. Reading the book helped me confirm lot of the ideas that I already had.

Anyway, it seems that vegans and vegetarians are in short supply here, so hopefully we can share tips and info.

Best of luck to you!
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  #35   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-12, 04:27
Banting Banting is offline
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Posts: 13
 
Plan: Vegetarian
Stats: 208/190/168 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Hi LowCVegan,
I found your intro thread really interesting and shall modify my diet a bit as a result. I have gone back to 20g carbs per day for a while, so our diets are very different in that respect. I tend , to eat more or less the same things every day (till I up the carbs): it just makes the maths easier. Nowadays my exercise is mostly cycling and walking but I used to go to the gym and do running too. I think that if you increased the running miles, you would lose your weight in no time. I like to get outside to exercise and now find gyms a bit boring. Running was self-motivating for me when the endorphins kicked in and I used to talk to other runners while I ran but running is best restricted to half marathons at the maximum in my view, because of the danger of damaging your joints.
I found your info on nuts, seeds etc. very interesting, as I too like to get my nutrition from natural sources as much as possible and prefer to avoid vitamin tablets. Incidentally I love the low-carb vegeburger recipe together with the veggie Caesar salad recipe in Rose Elliot's book ( you would have to use vegan cheese). I now realise it would not be too difficult for me to go vegan now but the cheese might be a problem, as I love cheddar. I live in Spain and food generally is plentiful and cheap here but vegetarian food is a bit more difficult to find here and vegan food is even more problematic.
Un saludo!

Last edited by Banting : Mon, Mar-19-12 at 04:29. Reason: corrected spelling
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  #36   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-12, 06:31
trtrtr trtrtr is offline
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Posts: 3
 
Plan: vegetarian
Stats: 183/144/139 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
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Hi you two,
I am also doing low-carb and am a vegetarian (was vegan for 6 mos. recently... will go back and forth, I'm thinking). I've been doing low-carb for about two months now and it's been great. I track everything on myfitnesspal.com. Terrible name for a site, but it works well... pretty easy to track stuff. A big difference for me here is that I have MS. Was diagnosed just about a month ago. There is a ton of info out there on treating MS with diet, and though it's not specifically low-carb, it is very veg oriented and adapts well. There are a couple MS diets and diet books.. most of what I'm reading is like a modified Primal Diet for veggies. Pretty interesting. A couple sites I find helpful are the Nerd Fitness site (again, lukewarm on the name, though it's kind of funny) and Mark's Apple a Day site.
Nice to meet you folks.
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  #37   ^
Old Mon, Mar-19-12, 11:54
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I have gone back to 20g carbs per day for a while, so our diets are very different in that respect.

Wow, that is really low. I get 15 just from the seeds, and I'm not willing to ditch them (minerals!), so I would not be willing to go to 20. I was doing some math last night and I think if I really wanted to, I could get down to about maybe 40 or so and still get all my vitamins and minerals, but no lower. And even going down to 40 would force less variety and further dependence on protein powder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I think that if you increased the running miles, you would lose your weight in no time.

I do plan to increase my miles, probably this week. While I'm getting my diet squared away, I'm still working out with weights three times a week, and that takes priority over running for me. I just need to see how my energy levels and recovery times seem to do on this new diet. I'm specifically concerned about my glycogen stores. I don't want to be "wasting" my glycogen on running if it means that I won't be able to lift with as much intensity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
running is best restricted to half marathons at the maximum in my view, because of the danger of damaging your joints.

Agreed. I think running becomes a game of diminishing returns after you get to the point where you just feel like you have to keep upping your daily or weekly mileage. A 5k or two a week is all I need, with an occasional 5 miler thrown in just for a occasional challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I found your info on nuts, seeds etc. very interesting, as I too like to get my nutrition from natural sources as much as possible and prefer to avoid vitamin tablets.

I'm now a big proponent of them for vegetarians and vegans, especially if you're also doing any kind of carb restriction. I just haven't yet seen an alternative way to get the required V&M. It's a little easier if you're vegetarian, but still... how much egg and cheese can a person really eat? And even if you rely primarily on eggs and cheese, you're still probably going to be low on a lot of the B vitamins as well as nearly all the mineral (iron, potassium, magnesium, copper, zinc - although you'd probably be okay on calcium) I also like the simplicity/digestibility of drinking ground seeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I live in Spain and food generally is plentiful and cheap here but vegetarian food is a bit more difficult to find here and vegan food is even more problematic.

Man, I would love to visit Spain! I just recently got back from India, and it's piqued my curiosity for all world travel.

My philosophy toward eating vegan is that it should be affordable and that it should rely as much as possible on whole foods and "normal" foods. Nutritional yeast and pea protein powder are a little bit "weird" I guess (and pea protein isn't exactly a whole food), but virtually everything else I eat is a food that has been eaten by some culture somewhere for millenia. Seeds, legumes, greens, some vegetables and tubers and oil.

Can you purchase flax, sesame and sunflower seeds in bulk where you live? how about nutritional yeast and kale and/or turnip greens? The addition of even small amounts of any of these things would boost your V&M intake.

Last edited by LowCVegan : Mon, Mar-19-12 at 12:01.
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  #38   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 15:13
Banting Banting is offline
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Posts: 13
 
Plan: Vegetarian
Stats: 208/190/168 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress:
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20g carbs is not easy and means you have to keep checking your intake all the time because a small change can make a difference. That's why I have the same food every day for a week. I use a lot of tofu (no carbs) and tvp (not too many carbs, especially if mixed with tofu. It is easier for vegetarians as opposed to vegans. Double cream, eggs, camembert cheese and mayo have negligeable or few carbs and make you feel full up.
My breakfast is 2 eggs, loads of fresh spinach and loads of mushrooms.
Lunch is 1 whole large avocado filled with mayo and 1/4 of a round camembert.
Evening meal is a tofu+tvp burger with a veggie Caesar's salad - very filling.
I also have 3 soy protein isolate drinks a day and tea and coffee made with soy milk.
I add flax seeds to one drink.
When I feel tempted to drop off the diet, I have a small piece of cheese or some olives.
I intend to increase my carbs next week - I might include a half glass of wine at the end of the day. You go high as a kite on half a glass of wine, if you are eating very low carbs.
I would like to be vegan but cannot achieve that on 20g carbs per day, so must wait till I can afford to raise the carbs level.
It's easy to get flax, sesame and sunflower seeds here. I haven't check on nutritional yeast as yet. The great thing about Spain is that everything grows here and it grows bigger and faster, because we have so much sunshine and warmth.
PS Gary Taubes' book is very interesting, if perhaps a bit repetitive. Thanks for the recommendation.

Last edited by Banting : Tue, Mar-20-12 at 15:30. Reason: correcting spelling
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  #39   ^
Old Tue, Mar-20-12, 20:09
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I also have 3 soy protein isolate drinks a day.

I used soy protein while in India and I really did not enjoy it. It was so chalky! I highly recommend gemma pea protein if you're interested in changing up your protein powder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
PS Gary Taubes' book is very interesting, if perhaps a bit repetitive. Thanks for the recommendation.

If you think that book is repetitive, try reading his prior book, "Good Calories, Bad Calories." I'm reading it right now. It's three times as long and goes into so much detail about all the science/political wrangling behind dietary recommendations (mainly in the U.S, but he touches on other countries). It can definitely get tedious at times, but I'm learning some pretty valuable info.

It's weird that there is all of this evidence that backs up the efficacy of a high fat, moderate protein, restricted carb diet, but all of them that he has discussed so far are all very meat-centric. I have not come across anything about a vegetarian trial, let alone a vegan one. And a quick search of Google Scholar turned up nothing as far as I can tell. I wonder if it's been studied. Based on what I'm learning, I don't see why it can't work. Keep carbs low (therefore, keep insulin low), eat adequate protein (15-25% OR 1.2-1.6 g protein per kg bodyweight), eat plenty of fat. The same principles should apply, right? I hope so!
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  #40   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 06:58
Banting Banting is offline
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Posts: 13
 
Plan: Vegetarian
Stats: 208/190/168 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Ignore this. I messed up!
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  #41   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 07:03
Banting Banting is offline
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Posts: 13
 
Plan: Vegetarian
Stats: 208/190/168 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowCVegan
I used soy protein while in India and I really did not enjoy it. It was so chalky! I highly recommend gemma pea protein if you're interested in changing up your protein powder.


The pea protein has more than 10 times the carbs of soy isolate protein and both are consistent with a vegan or vegetarian diet. I am experimenting with ways of changing the taste without adding carbs. Adding coffee and soya milk is not bad.
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  #42   ^
Old Wed, Mar-21-12, 07:38
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
The pea protein has more than 10 times the carbs of soy isolate protein

I'm not sure how you're doing the math on this one, but the pea protein has 1.2 carbs per serving, ALL of which is dietary fiber, so it has ZERO net carbs. You can't get lower than that. Are you doing some kind of plan that doesn't subtract out fiber grams from carbs for some odd reason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
both are consistent with a vegan or vegetarian diet.

Definitely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I am experimenting with ways of changing the taste without adding carbs.

That website has tons of zero-cal options, including adding no-cal vanilla flavoring and stevia extract, which is what I opt for. It's quite tasty. And since I've been low-carbing, it tastes even sweeter to me.

But to each his own. If you're more comfortable sticking with the SPI, nothing wrong with that.
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Mar-22-12, 15:35
Banting Banting is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Vegetarian
Stats: 208/190/168 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress:
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Sorry if my last post was a bit terse - and it was, so sorry. I am not interested in winning any argument here. The only thing that interests me here is finding out the truth, because when you're playing with just 20 carbs per day (or preferably even a bit less), there really isn't much room for error: a difference of 2 carbs would amount to 10% of my carb diet. My source for the maths is http://www.myprotein.com/uk/product...protein_isolate and http://www.myprotein.com/uk/product...protein_isolate .
I imagine that if they don't deduct the fibre for soy, they also don't deduct the protein for pea ???

Last edited by Banting : Thu, Mar-22-12 at 15:49.
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  #44   ^
Old Fri, Mar-23-12, 16:04
LowCVegan LowCVegan is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 42
 
Plan: vegan lowcarb (self-made)
Stats: 178/172/160 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 33%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
Sorry if my last post was a bit terse - and it was, so sorry.

No problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
when you're playing with just 20 carbs per day (or preferably even a bit less), there really isn't much room for error: a difference of 2 carbs would amount to 10% of my carb diet.

I hear that. You do have to be careful when you're going so low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banting
I imagine that if they don't deduct the fibre for soy, they also don't deduct the protein for pea ???

My guess is that they deduct for neither. On the truenutrition website they specifically list carb grams and fiber grams, and they're the same number, so there are zero net carbs.

In any case, like I said before, do what you think is best. I just liek to make people aware of any option that might make life a little bit more pleasurable while low-carbing. I've tried a half dozen different proteins (vegetarian and vegan) and the gemma pea protein from that website is by far my fave (and also the cheapest).

Take care.
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