Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > Paleolithic & Neanderthin
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #226   ^
Old Thu, May-21-09, 21:02
pangolina pangolina is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 218
 
Plan: Pregnancy / Dr. K / SCD
Stats: 160/000/135 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 640%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taste test
(...) and that many of us fool ourselves about how much we are really willing to do to lose weight.

I guess the thing is, I'm not primarily interested in losing weight. Neither is one of the new posters on the JK threads, who's used a diet that's similar to the Optimal Diet to recover from MS. Those of us who are dealing with serious health concerns, in ourselves or our loved ones, are often willing to do a lot... no fooling.

Compared to most other LC diets, the Optimal Diet is very demanding; there's not much question about that. It's not like Atkins, where you can just say, "hold the toast, please." There are the calculations, having to cook most things from scratch, the great difficulty in eating away from home, etc. Not everyone is willing to go through with it even for major health problems, let alone for weight loss. This is true for Poles as well as Americans. For the most part, the people who stick with the diet are either those with an especially strong interest in health and nutrition, or those who know that they're going to relapse into a very serious illness if they go off it. Even among, say, diabetics, JK gets far closer compliance from type 1 patients than from many type 2s.

One great advantage that Polish people have in following this diet is the community that's available to them: the magazines, web sites, JK's newspaper columns, the "Optimal Brotherhood" organizations, etc. The diet might be a minority thing there, but at least people have heard of it. Here, if you mention it to someone, it's as if you're telling them about some little green creature that you brought back from your trip to outer space. Even on LC boards, it's considered very weird by many people.

I'm glad that there are other high-fat/moderate-protein/low-carb voices out there. JK has done some remarkable work, but that's not to say that others can't contribute new insights. It's interesting to follow the discussion on Hyperlipid and 180 Degree Health. (Although I cracked up when I first read that Matt Stone says he's doing "high-fat Schwarzbein," because Diana Schwarzbein comes across as a total "chick writer" to me. I would never have guessed he was a fan.)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #227   ^
Old Fri, May-22-09, 05:41
taste test taste test is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 104
 
Plan: HF/MP/LC
Stats: 120/120/120 Female 64 inches
BF:26.5
Progress: 43%
Location: New Jersey
Default

Although due to an unhealthy obsession, I am ALWAYS interested in losing weight, I would also say that it is not my primary purpose. Having suffered from eating disordered behavior for most of my life, I am looking for a way of eating that will keep me healthy. I can maintain my weight on a low fat diet but sooner or later, I will binge and in the meantime, I will be fighting a binge and will always be hungry. A high protein, high fat diet stops the binges and hunger but I gain weight. High fat, adequate protein, low carb allows me to maintain my weight and also stops the binges. My biggest problem now is trusting that I can eat enough to stay satisfied which turns out to be quite a bit. It will probably take a while for me to internalize this. For so many years, I have tried to subsist on 1400 cal/day and now I see that to feel good, I need more like 2000 (or maybe more).

I always thought that my problems were psychological but now I think otherwise. I came from a crazy home- divorced mother, barely functional- NEVER cooked. My diet in high school consisted of frozen waffles with syrup with a fried egg on top (thank God for the egg!). For school lunch, I would have a chocolate milk, cheese crackers and a coffee cake junior. How could I not get disordered eating this way? I've tried therapists, a treatment center, self help books, scads of diet variations and even hypnosis. I've learned to eat better over the years and my disorder had lessened but it wasn't until I started eating MUCH more fat that I saw a really profound change in my health.

The OD is challenging and sometimes feels impractical and antisocial but I don't care anymore. It is certainly the best I've found in terms of results. I love reading the Hyperlipid blog but I don't see Matt Stone as more than just another seeker- interesting to read now and then but not so much as an authority.

Although there isn't an OD community here, I'm grateful for these threads. They've helped me a lot. I like all the different voices- from the strict adherents to the off the reservations types. I like to hear many views and then make my own decisions.
Reply With Quote
  #228   ^
Old Fri, May-22-09, 07:28
CindyCRNA CindyCRNA is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 25
 
Plan: EFGT
Stats: 152/124/118 Female 67
BF:
Progress:
Default

I have a friend with a 3 year old son that ha been diagnosed with epilepsy about 6 months ago. Trials of different meds have failed to eradicate the seizures so the next step is a ketogenic diet. And not just any ketogenic diet. A 3:1 ketogenic diet. He has to have 3 grams of fat for every gram of protein and carbs, combined. I did a 1.5 :1 for a few days and talk about planning! Try getting a 3 year old to eat that much fat. I have given her a few LC products that are also low protein and she is going to start introducing some of these items before they go full blown. I wish her luck.
Reply With Quote
  #229   ^
Old Fri, May-22-09, 09:50
pangolina pangolina is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 218
 
Plan: Pregnancy / Dr. K / SCD
Stats: 160/000/135 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 640%
Location: USA
Default

I'm going off the boards for a while (baby is due very soon), but just wanted to add something in response to Cindy's post.

The keto diet for epilepsy is more extreme even than Dr. K's standard recommendations. It has a ratio of about:

1 : 3.75 : 0.25 (90% fat, 8% protein, 2% carbs).

It also restricts fluids and total calories. So, yes, this is very tough for families to implement. I'm glad you're able to give your friend some support.

In another thread on this topic, I had mentioned that doctors had tried substituting a high-fat version of the Atkins diet for patients who had trouble with compliance, but they said that it wasn't as effective. Apparently, though, some research has found that "modified Atkins" (with over 60% fat) does seem to get comparable results to the keto diet after all. Johns Hopkins, which has been one of the main proponents of the ketogenic diet since it was developed in the 1920's, is now offering the Atkins approach as an alternative option for adults and children over age 2.

A New Choice on the Menu: Five Years of the Modified Atkins Diet for Epilepsy

This is very good news.
Reply With Quote
  #230   ^
Old Fri, May-22-09, 10:01
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangolina
I guess the thing is, I'm not primarily interested in losing weight. Neither is one of the new posters on the JK threads, who's used a diet that's similar to the Optimal Diet to recover from MS.


Well I *am* interested in losing weight. Heck, I currently weigh 284 pounds! How could I *not* be interesting in losing weight? But I have a totally different mindset about it now. In previous diets my goal was to *lose weight*, in any way possible. I low carbed before, but the main advantage to low carb to me, at the time, was that it was an easy diet to stick to. Even when I went on strict paleo it was solely in an effort to try to break a long stall, and not for any perceived health benefits.

I mean there are still plenty of low carbers like that even now who, like my sister, think that sugar-free Jello topped with a big glob of Cool Whip, is an acceptable LC treat.

But now my thinking has totally changed on that. I do want to lose weight, but I also want to be healthy and whole. I want my body to *heal*. I've come to realize that the weight loss I desire will probably never happen as long as my system is out of whack. So my main focus now is on whole health and healing - with the hope (and assumption) that weight loss will occur too, as a result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangolina
Those of us who are dealing with serious health concerns, in ourselves or our loved ones, are often willing to do a lot... no fooling.


Yeah, having a health issue to confront sure often brings us up short. What a shame that so often this is the case for many of us, who could have been eating more Optimally for a long time - but didn't even bother to give it much thought as long as live and health seemed unimpaired to any great degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pangolina
It's interesting to follow the discussion on Hyperlipid and 180 Degree Health. (Although I cracked up when I first read that Matt Stone says he's doing "high-fat Schwarzbein," because Diana Schwarzbein comes across as a total "chick writer" to me. I would never have guessed he was a fan.)


I know Matt Stone is considered a "lightweight" by some. But he has a young, hip, writing style that might appeal to certain people - my son being one of them. And whatever gets people to the table .... so to speak. And, of course, he writes in English. And also, the more people out there promoting the benefits of this sort of eating style, putting it out there more to the public, can only be a good thing IMHO.

And while Matt Stone clearly does not have *years* of successfully treating patients (he was not even *born* when JK began with his theories, and he is no doctor) what he does bring to the table is some years of experience as a chef at some nice restaurants.

For an eating plan that, let's face it, *does* really demand a lot of home cooking and home eating to be able to stick to Optimal levels, Matt Stone's e-book, 'The 180 Kitchen (180 Tips, Recipes and more)' is useful to have in your arsenal. Since his eating recommendation coincide nicely with JK's the recipes provided are mostly quite Optimal - and give lots of great tips just on cooking techniques, stocking your kitchen, etc. that really can help make the plan more liveable.

I may have to try *his* recipe for Chicken Liver Paté the next time I make it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:56.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.