Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Nutrition & Supplements
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Wed, May-11-11, 09:58
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default How To Use Supplement Powders Calcium Citrate Magnesium Citrate

I am using Magnesium Citrate powder to get my magnesium. I use 1/2 tsp in my morning bowl muffin (this is about 1200 mg of which 16% is magnesium [200mg]). At my current weight my minimum dosage should be 546mg.

I was informed by my rheumatologist that I need to start taking a calcium citrate supplement to the amount of 1200mg a day (yes, he specifically named calcium citrate). This only accounts for 252mg elemental calcium. What triggered this mess is a 3.5% bone loss in two years.

I've ordered the powder so I can add it to my bowl muffin recipe as well but I wanted to double-check the amount of supplements before I proceed.

When specifying the ratios for intake of Calcium to Magnesium, is this in it's various compounds? Or is it based on the elemental value?

(values based on my current average intake of mag.citrate.)

IE:
Magnesium Citrate 1200mg
Calcium Citrate 1200mg (doctor ordered)

vs.

elemental Magnesium 200mg (16% mag. citrate)
elemental Calcium 252mg (21% cal. citrate)

Final question: Should I increase the amounts I am (will be) using?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 13:35
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default

As you can see, I asked this question back in May 2011 and have not seen a reply.

Does anyone know?
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 14:27
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I just started a thread about Osteopenia in General Health, maybe you should check that one too.

From what I understand:

Calcium and magnesium sort of work against one another, so you should take them at different times. I don't know about ratios.

I take my mag. just before bedtime and calcium in the morning.

Also, even more important is to take vitamin D3 and K2. K2 makes the calcium go to your bones, not your arteries (calcium supplementation without k2 tends to cause more heart disease).

D3 is very important for bone health too.

Someone else suggested silica. I'm going to add that as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 15:22
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default

Thank you Nancy! I was getting worried that I was asking a really stupid question. I'm going to assume then that the doses are based on the total values rather than the elemental values.

Okay, vitamin D3, K2 and calcium in the morning?

And magnesium at night?

And to add: At what time should I take potassium? With meals throughout the day? or with the morning regimen?

I need to pick up K2.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 15:23
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default

To add: My results from my recent bone scan was .3 so I'm doing quite well with calcium absorption. Now that I've cut back the amount of cheese I'm eating I need to supplement.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 15:47
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

When you get k2 get the k2 MK-7 sort. The MK-4 doesn't last so long. I don't think potassium matters.

Here's a pretty good article, but they seem to think you need enormous doses of K2. It would be outrageously expensive, I should think. You might add some silica to that order too.

I order my vitamins online they're always cheaper than the stores. Try iherb or swaonsonvitamins.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 17:41
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC

From what I understand:

Calcium and magnesium sort of work against one another, so you should take them at different times. I don't know about ratios.



Interesting! Do you have a source for that? I've seen plenty of products that combine the two and am sure I've seen recommended that they be taken together. I'd love to read an alternate view.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 18:25
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ca...lements/AN01428

Well, here's one. I googled on "should you take calcium and magnesium at the same time" and came up with several. Sadly, the only calcium supplements they had at TJ's were mixed with mag. So I'll have to order some online.

Quote:
It's also a good idea to take your calcium supplements at a different time from your multivitamin or an iron-rich meal. Calcium may not be absorbed as well if it's taken at the same time as iron, zinc or magnesium.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 18:44
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I did come across something that said you could take calcium and Mg together if not more that 250 mg of each. Whole Foods sells magnesium citrate by itself and I was able to get a liquid in capsules version at Costco recently.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 19:18
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
When you get k2 get the k2 MK-7 sort. The MK-4 doesn't last so long. I don't think potassium matters.

Here's a pretty good article, but they seem to think you need enormous doses of K2. It would be outrageously expensive, I should think. You might add some silica to that order too.

I order my vitamins online they're always cheaper than the stores. Try iherb or swaonsonvitamins.


Was there supposed to be a link? I'm curious what "they" say. I do use iHerb. I love how you can reorder by simply clicking a button
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Mon, Jul-01-13, 19:31
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Oops, yes: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...vitamin-k2.aspx

Quote:
Story at-a-glance
Vitamin K2 is an important fat-soluble vitamin that plays critical roles in protecting your heart and brain, and building strong bones. It also plays an important role in cancer protection
The biological role of vitamin K2 is to help move calcium into the proper areas in your body, such as your bones and teeth. It also helps remove calcium from areas where it shouldn’t be, such as in your arteries and soft tissues
The optimal amounts of vitamin K2 are still under investigation, but it seems likely that 180 to 200 micrograms of vitamin K2 might be enough to activate your body’s K2-dependent proteins to shuttle calcium to the proper areas
If you take oral vitamin D, you also need to take vitamin K2. Vitamin K2 deficiency is actually what produces the symptoms of vitamin D toxicity, which includes inappropriate calcification that can lead to hardening of your arteries
If you take a calcium supplement, it’s important to maintain the proper balance between calcium, vitamin K2, vitamin D, and magnesium. Lack of balance between these nutrients is why calcium supplements have become associated with increased risk of heart attack and stroke
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jul-04-13, 14:54
LosingMe16 LosingMe16 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 520
 
Plan: VLC/High Fat
Stats: 253/249/200 Female 69"
BF:
Progress: 8%
Location: Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by katoman
As you can see, I asked this question back in May 2011 and have not seen a reply.

Does anyone know?


This depends on the brand and quality of the product in terms of elemental vs. compound; in the natural foods industry MOST products are listed on a supplement facts label like such:

Magnesium (as magnesium citrate) ......... 200mg

This above labeling denotes that it is ELEMENTAL mag 200mg from the mag citrate. If it simply said "magnesium citrate .............. 600mg" it is most likely a product that is not labeling how much of the elemental product is in there. This, from my personal standpoint, would be a slightly inferior product because they're really deceiving you into believing each serving is 600mg of magnesium, which is not the case.

In terms of what your doctor meant, I would probably address him directly and ask for clarification; did you want me to ingest 1200mg of this as elemental calcium/magnesium...? I would say it is MOST LIKELY that that is what the doctor meant, because 1000mg of elemental calcium is a standard daily dose; for someone with bone loss I would not find it surprising if their doctor asked them to take a larger amount than that daily. It is good that you are taking large amounts of magnesium with your calcium; it will help ensure that you properly absorb the calcium and avoid calcium deposits such as bone spurs or kidney stones.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Sat, Aug-24-13, 17:54
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default

I totally forgot to follow up on this thread.

Despite NOT taking calcium supplements for the last two years, my bone density test went from -3.5 (percent change from baseline) to -.3

My only calcium has been a near-daily intake of 2 to 3 oz of cheddar cheeses.

For purposes of actually getting the weight moving downward, I've given up my beloved cheese for the time being...

I wonder if supplementing is even really necessary at this time...
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Sat, Aug-24-13, 17:55
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LosingMe16
This depends on the brand and quality of the product in terms of elemental vs. compound; in the natural foods industry MOST products are listed on a supplement facts label like such:

Magnesium (as magnesium citrate) ......... 200mg

This above labeling denotes that it is ELEMENTAL mag 200mg from the mag citrate. If it simply said "magnesium citrate .............. 600mg" it is most likely a product that is not labeling how much of the elemental product is in there. This, from my personal standpoint, would be a slightly inferior product because they're really deceiving you into believing each serving is 600mg of magnesium, which is not the case.

In terms of what your doctor meant, I would probably address him directly and ask for clarification; did you want me to ingest 1200mg of this as elemental calcium/magnesium...? I would say it is MOST LIKELY that that is what the doctor meant, because 1000mg of elemental calcium is a standard daily dose; for someone with bone loss I would not find it surprising if their doctor asked them to take a larger amount than that daily. It is good that you are taking large amounts of magnesium with your calcium; it will help ensure that you properly absorb the calcium and avoid calcium deposits such as bone spurs or kidney stones.
I have the elemental form.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Sat, Aug-24-13, 19:09
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I don't know. Is that just a .05 increase? I don't know how bone density is measured. What does the doctor say?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.