Judy
If you do mix CALP w/Atkins. Check the food lists and save your non allowed CALP veggies for a once a day RM type meal on Atkins. Otherwise, you can still find yourself not losing.

Ok, well, that first attempt of Atkins today was a shot and miss already......... RM for lunch and Hershey Heaven. . . .

Sky - here are my number averages and see if you can make any sense of that.

CALP day # 1 - actual weight 153, prev wk. av.:150.5
day # 8 - actual: 150.5, av.:151.5
day #15 - actual: 149, av.: 149.64
Today: day #22 - actual: 151, av.: 151.43

So, as of right now, I can't seem to read any sense into that. The days on CALP also happen to coincide with the days of my cycle, with TOM about 4-6 days away.....I soooooo want to believe in this, I really, really do....!!!!! I love this WOL/WOE, but I do need to lose another 15-20 pounds! You see, I have already lost over 65 lbs after I had been told for 31 years, all my life(!!!), that I would never lose weight, that that was just the way I was, that I should learn to love myself. I do agree with the latter, but I know I can do this! I never want to go back to the hell of low fat/low cal, with which I did lose all that weight. But because I could no longer hold the weight, I switched to Atkins - 8 months of that with no weight loss after the initial 2 weeks of induction, hanging in there, hanging in there....then and now CALP. I was so very hopeful after the first week, dropped a total of 2 lbs after the second. But for some reason I have a lot of faith in Zuleika, or rather for the obvious reason...!!! So this temp. up in average could very well be the imminent arrival of TOM. For now that is what I chose to believe!

Zuleika, you have already helped me through more than you will ever know... The mere thought of knowing that you're there...your insight and knowledge - thank you so much!!!!

I have 'THE BIG TEST' ahead of me - 4 weeks of Germany, starting Monday! If I do not gain weight (provided I won't cheat - which is highly unlikely, since I am always satiated!), I am 110% SOLD on this!
And I do apologize for my emotional roller coaster right now, one day positive, the other soo down....ALWAYS, ALWAYS had problems with PMS.....

I guess you could say I'm doing a CAD-atkins thing too. I think CAD helps so much with cravings but I had trouble with certain foods that I wanted to have at RM. Basically chocolate bothers me and its pretty much the only carb food I'm interested in eating on a regular basis. I love lowcarb bars so I have them now at RM. My body doesn't handle eating much junk food very well.

I follow Atkins in that I'm counting carbs and staying 30-40 a day.

I'm following CAD in balancing and timing of the
RM and not snacking and not eating if I'm not hungry.

This is how I analyze your data:

CALP day # 1 - actual weight 153, prev wk. av.:150.5

day # 8 - actual: 150.5 (down 2.5 from last week) , av.:151.5 (up 1.0 from last week)

day #15 - actual: 149 (down 1.5 from last week), av.: 149.64 (down 1.86 from last week)

Today: day #22 - actual: 151 (up 2.0 from last week), av.: 151.43 (up 1.79 from last week)

Delta from day #1 to #22 is actual weight (down 2.0), av.: (up 0.99)

Looks as if you were losing about 1-2 pounds per week actual weight, then hit a snag at "Today: day #22", maybe w/ TOM/PMS and went up again. You are still having to include the "up" days in your average, but it's coming down again.

If you keep your data for a much longer period of time and over several TOM cycles, you'll be much better able to tell your true progress. It's difficult because of women's cycles, but a longer set of data will tell the tale.

I look at my actual weight each week, the average and the delta from when I began Atkins. That gives me a really good idea of my progress. I try to not focus on time periods that are too short to do me any good.

I don't look at the delta from when I began CAD, because I know I am never, never, NEVER going back to Atkins, and I am not trying to prove that I should stay on CAD. I gotta.....it's the only thing that works for me!

Even though I have not lost very much, I keep firmly in mind that it IS a loss. When I factor in the probable gain I would have had over the holiday and because of SAD and just every day too, I see it as a much bigger loss than the scale tells me it is. I can't count it as a loss because I didn't actually gain it, but I am certain I would have gained at least 10 pounds since 7/29/02. That helps me see what is actually going on and how much worse I would have been had I not found CAD again.

Make sense? Hope so! Just give yourself a little more time.....

Take care now, you hear?

Thanks, Sky,
your analysis DOES make a lot of sense to me - whole new perspective....

I am so happy to see some of you are doing an Atkins/CAD kind of program, that is kind of what I've started out doing, now. I'm only having a RM every few days, otherwise, I'm trying to keep my carbs down to 30 per day. But, I dropped 40 lbs from October to March, and was thrilled. since March... nothing. and I have actually been doing it, don't know if I 'm not getting enough calories, or if I just need a change, like someone just said. I figure, maybe just a change of what I'm eating will kick start me. But... I am so afraid that I'll gain back the 40 I lost. Anyway, I'm trying, occasionally Hopefully, I'll see results, so far no... but I haven't gained anything, even though I have had spagetti, rice, corn, and an icecream sandwich. Not all in the same meal, but, I felt really full after those meals, maybe that's the idea. thanks chris

Chrisews
You might try adding another RM. A CA actually needs carbs to lose. I did 5 days Atkins and 2 days CAD this summer and it was my worse weight loss summer. You might also examine your foods against those allowed on CAD. Some not allowed on CAD are allowed on Atkins and if used more than once a day can also slow/stall your loss.

Well my first few weeks of Atkins I felt great. Lost 7 pounds in 7 days. Second week lost about 4 inches no pounds, but what they hey can't ask for everything, then 3 week stall no pounds or inches to speak of. Then the energy surge went. Thats when I thought it was time to move on. I am thinking quite seriously about doing atkins with cad. I would really hate to give up rm's, but I may try a day here and there. I have been bouncing so much lately, but I don' think I'll be able to tell till I get off these meds that I have to take before I have surgery. So I guess I'll just hang in limbo till then.

the way I feel at the moment, I couldnt go back to my Atkins. I did it religiously from aug 2001 - 3 weeks ago, but I didnt do well and didnt feel right.

Ive only lost 2 lb so far.... completing my 3 rd week Sun.... but have realised how fantastic I feel, such a feeling of well - being.
Thats worth an awful lot. Its going to be worth keeping up with this for that alone.

Lisa... Im still so grateful for the info on the 1/3 thing..... I think its cos as a UK - er of a certain age I have trouble defining the word " balanced " LOL. Ive been through my CAD and yes the word balanced is used a lot but no mention of the 1/3's, just to take from the 4 food groups.
(copyright 1991 is my edition) Now, "balanced" to me, means "nutritious". And our National dishes.... fish and chips and chicken tikka masala for eg, would be considered nutritious, but of course with cad rules, theres no veg. and salad......

honest, if I were left to my own devices I would have just had fish and chips this Sat., but thanks to you all helping me along I can get the definition of "balanced" right.

(mind you, fish, chips and green beans isnt so traditional I shall get some funny looks)

Plum I don't believe it is in the CAD book, I believe it is a part of CALP. The 1/3,1/3, 1/3 thing. I know it did say in CAD about balancing your meals out. And it said if your basically a good balancer you can eat 2 desserts a night. I wouldn't BUT that is what it said. (not verbatim)

I haven't read CAD, but... in CALP it does say to eat the 3 ... 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 balance...

Just thought I'd say Hi. Add me to the numbers of sucessful switch from Atkins to CAD.

My CAD book does mention balencing your meal in 1/3rds high carb items, low carb vegies and protein...it only kinda mentions it in passing. Not like CALP it was definetely stressed and salad to start is a must.

I was a little confused because in CAD in one place it sounds like starting with salad is one of the plans but not included with all of them. But a little later it says be sure and start with your salad??

Oh well the salad start works well for me..i love salad and it helps fill me up

Well Bye for now

Hi Becca and welcome...
I think that is the idea, because in reality a regular, like icegerg salad, don't have much of anything in it, after all, mostly water and with dressing, fat...

Ok, I am not sure which CAD book some other people are reading, but i have mine right here in front of me (Copyright 1991) and on page 120 it says, verbatim:

2nd Paragraph:
Reward yourself once a day at a time of your choosing. The Reward Meal is "balanced mini-feast." not to be interpreted as a "free-for-all" of eating. .... The amount of foods that you eat will depend on what you and your physician decide is best for your needs.

Right below that paragraph is a diagram labeled REWARD MEAL BALANCE. It consists of two circles, one small one and one large one. Inside the small one, it says "salad" and the large one is divided in three, with each part labeled "protein" "low-carb vegetables" and "high-carb foods (including dessert).

3rd Paragraph:

The following description corresponds to the diagram above. Every Reward Meal begins with one to two cups of salad that may include any of the following low-carbohydrate vegetables:

(Lists veggies)

PAGE 121

1st Paragraph:
Beginning the Reward Meal with the salad is very important to the success of the program. If you cannot or do not want to eat the salad, you may choose to replace the salad with cooked low-carbohydrate vegetables instead. These vegetables are only meant to replace the salad and are NOT to be counted as part of the 1/3 non-starchy LOW-CARB VEGETABLES described below.

2nd Paragraph:
The remainder of the Reward Meal should consist of equal portions of:

1. 1/3 good protien sources to be chosen from page 112, including but not limited to cheese, eggs, low-carbo dairy, meats, poulty, seafood, textured vege protein, tofu.
2. 1/3 low-carbohydrate (non-starchy) vegetables to be chosen from page 115.
3. 1/3 high-carbohydrate foods to be chosen from page 124, including breads and other starches, starchy vegetables, snack foods, fruits, juices, sodas, sweets, and desserts.

3rd Paragraph:
Use your judgement in making sure that each 1/3 category represents about 1/3 of the total amount of food being eaten in the main portion of the Reward Meal.




Honestly, the reason I believe that the RM is balanced, is to make it nutrional. I think that if you overload on carbs during your RM, it is not going to make you gain weight (the calories may...) but you're gonna feel sick and gross and you won't be getting the nutrients you need.

Anyways, there is more, but that is on page 120 and 121 of the 1991 book that I bought from Barnes and Nobles. I am not sure if there is another CAD book out there, that may say different, but this is what is in my book. I know that the RM with salad is only with a two (plans C and D). But that is a different subject, just wanted to clarify that I understand that part

I've been bending my brain around this concept of combining CA (Carbohydrate Addict's) w/ Atkins, and it seems to me, that is, it is my OPINION that CA is already doing that.

Think on it.....you have an RM once a day and the rest of the day you have CM meals or snacks.....the CM foods are LC by definition. If you were to count up the carb grams per day on CA, would you find that you have automatically restricted them to acceptable Atkins levels?

So would you have to make your RM into a CM to combine the two plans? Or keep your RM below a certain level of carbs?

And the plans differ markedly in their concepts and goals.....Atkins seeks to restrict carbs to the point of inducing ketosis.....that seems to be the main point to the plan. You can eat all day long and as long as you keep your carbs below a certain point, individual for you, it is correct. You track your progress by Ketostix and weight loss. Plus, you're supposed to feel energetic.

CA seeks to get your body to lower the excessive production of insulin. You eat a limited number of meals and/or snacks per day, and keep your carbs below a certain point except for one hour during the day when you may eat anything you like. You track your progress by weight loss. Plus, some people feel "better" on plan than off.

Now, how would you successfully combine those diametrically opposed plans? Follow Atkins all day except for RM?

And again, it seems to me that CA is already doing that.

Or perhaps you'd follow CA for a few days, then follow Atkins? What would happen to your ketosis when you were on CA? What would happen to your insulin levels when you were on Atkins? Kinda seems to me that you'd be sabotaging yourself at every change of plan.

Anybody? Ideas here?