I’m confused about the value of exercise. I just finished rereading Gary Taubes chapter on exercise where the case put forth that exercise is fairly worthless, and possibly even counterproductive to weight loss. The general theory seems to be that exercise raises appetite and that any added calories burned will likely be offset through added calories consumed. He even discounts the idea that building more muscle will lead to higher metabolism because the effect would be fairly small.

I am at a plateau and considering exercise to blast through it but concerned that this could backfire. I understand that exercise has benefits beyond potential weight loss, but in this case my primary concern is body fat.

I have formed a hypothesis and would love your feedback. First let me say that it is logical that exercise stimulates hunger if you are burning glucose for fuel. You use up the glucose stores and then your body tells you to refuel, but if you are in ketosis is it possible it does not stimulate hunger in this same way? The reason is that rather than needing to eat to refuel your body can just access your fat reserves.

If this is not how it works, why? My understanding is that ketosis allows your body to access its fat reserves when it needs fuel. If your body can access its fat reserves then why trigger hunger? (bonking as Peter Attia called it)

My hypothesis is that had the exercise studies been done on people who were in a state of nutritional ketosis that the outcomes and conclusions might be different. Specifically that exercise was not a huge appetite stimulant, because the added fuel needs get taken care of by burning more stored fat as opposed to stimulating more hunger.

Thoughts?

Phinney/Volek, low carb researchers, have also found that aerobic exercise above a certain amount can slow the metabolism by up to 15%.

Exercise, in modest amounts, is good for you, but may not help with the weight loss. Best way to find out is to try it, IMHO. Don't fall into thinking More is better and try to emulate "Biggest Loser".

Funny, I was just thinking if I don't start moving more I'm going to get weaker. Reminds me of my mother at my current age who hardly ever moved from her chair and she was weak as a kitten for the rest of her life!

Time for a shower and some housework!!

I read Gary Taubes diet delusion. He suggested that if people are doing physical work all day, (like farm workers) are 'protected from the harmful effects of refined carbs'. [I'm paraphrasing there].

I've read that it better to do more muscle building stuff rather than two hours on an exercise bike.

Because exercise above the resting state always, always requires some level of glucose too. When you're fat adapted, glucose lasts way longer and you're more efficient with it, but eventually you still need glucose to fuel exertion, and if you run out you'll get hungry.

I like to think of the car energy analogy. Fat is like gas, and carbs are like spark plugs. The more you accelerate, the more RPMs needing more sparks. Similarly, the more intensity, the more glucose.

There's a really neat article from sport science coach Alan Couzens. He is comparing two runners, one fat adapted and one not. He shows how the fat-adapted guy succeeds because his glucose lasts longer.

Fat Burning Essentials by Alan Couzens

Also Mark Sisson on What does it mean to be fat adapted

It might be more important to consider how you feel when you exercise and also how you feel during times in your life that you do not exercise. Exercise doesn't mean having to be on a treadmill in a gym or in a body pump class. It can mean doing something you enjoy. And maybe that is the gym and maybe that is swimming or playing golf or basketball or dancing or rollerskating or talking daily walks in your neighborhood. The benefits of regular exercise on our minds and bodies have been shown time and time again. Who said a body at rest remains at rest, a body in motion stays in motion? I've always felt this fits me to a T. And most people I know. From personal experience, I just cannot see how exercise could ever impede weight loss or physical and mental well being. For someone, and yes I know who Taubes is, to be asserting that exercise is worthless is borderline insane and hopefully there are not legions of people out there following that advice. Movement is key to longevity.

Unfortunately for me I have lost and gained large amount of weight several times in my life. Exercising was always a part of the losing and low and behold....exercise was never a part of my life when I was gaining.

I can. Some ridiculous kinds anyway. Biggest Loser inappropriate exercise. Specially if it depresses metabolism, raises cortisol, blows away LBM, disregulates reward systems, and physically damages and hurts.

I do agree that exercise is good for longevity and moving nutrients around inside and stuff, but not that it's required for fat loss.

I've never been one to enjoy exercise for the sake of it. I'm sure there'll be many who will argue, but heres my take on it. I work for the NHS and there are so many injuries, sprains, breaks, damage caused by it, I often wonder the wisdom behind it - riding bikes on busy roads is also something that seems almost insane to me - the risks of being hit and the breathing in of the fumes really doesnt seem healthy in the slightest. My idea of exercise is walking, gardening, housework and doing things that need to be done.

That all said, I do understand that some people actually enjoy going to the gym, playing sports, riding bikes etc and thats fine, but I dont believe its worth pushing yourself into it, if its not for you. I certainly dont believe you can lose weight with exercise alone!!!!

Jo xxx

~ Seejay - I was not talking about fanatical exercising like Biggest loser or what have you. Extreme anything is bad for you imo. I am talking about regular exerices such as (but not limted to) walking for 20 minutes a day; fresh air, using your limbs and muscles, clearning your head, relieving stress - all positive traits for weight loss and weight loss maintenance.

I am also curious - Would you say that overall this forum is pro-exercise or anti-exercise? From the years that I have been popping around, I would venture to say that the scales seem to be tipped against exercise overall on this forum in general. It is of interest to me what your thoughts are

Let me put it this way, you are stuck at a plateau and want to do EVERYTHING you can to get past it, intermittent fasting, fat-fast, monitoring carb creep, etc. etc. Do you ALSO add exercise? Are we saying this will not make a difference when stuck? (or worse possibly even be counter productive?) Or, have you found adding exercise WILL help push you beyond a plateau, and if so, what type? Thanks!! PS Anybody tried adding thyroid stimulant to ramp up metabolism?

As a thyroid sufferer, I can attest that if you just take thyroid and you don't need it, you'll feel like crap (insomnia, heart palpitations, etc) and it probably won't even help you lose weight. At least, that is my experience.

I'd call that, just moving around. Me, I think exercise is not required or a guarantee for fat loss for *everyone* *no matter what*. It makes such a difference what one's starting condition is, and what kind of exercise, given what kind of nutrition.

On the general forum, as to pro-exercise or anti-exercise, I have to say I've seen advocates on both sides and everything in between. At least as to wishes and inclinations and opinions. People do differ in beliefs about exercise and fat loss for sure.

On this high-intensity forum, people are usually asking about how to do high intensity on low carb. Because the energy for that kind of exercise can change on LC, also how frequently one does it. Some LC plans specifically advocate high intensity as part of the exercise component (like Primal Blueprint).

I find it interesting that so many people extend Gary Taubes's assessment that exercise does not increase weight loss to mean that exercise is therefore worthless. He never says that, and he himself enjoys exercise. What he says is that if you expend the extra calories for added exercise, your body will make up for it somehow either in increased hunger and increased food intake or by slowing metabolism.

Obviously, the body can and will lose weight - to a point which I think varies for each individual. I've found the best way for me to lose weight is to keep blood sugar and insulin low and to exercise moderately.

A more positive spin on the value of exercise is that it may allow you to eat more without gaining weight. As to how the body might accommodate exercise in or out of ketosis, I wish I knew!

Well I will chime in, it all depends on your body needs.

But if you are stuck may as well try it.

I can say when I wasn't exercising I lost less weight. how much less about .5 - .75 pounds. I think it is a supplement to weight loss. Since Midish April of this year I been working out. Started off slow 2 days a week, worked up to 3 days, now I am at 5 days.

I am a big proponent of excerising, in a moderate way. Like many said gardening, painting the house, walkin are all good ways. Yoga even.

For my own body type and issue, i mainly weight lift 3 days a week and do a bike/stomach workout 2 days a week.

If I had my way I do Yoga, but I have a bad back.

My thinking is, I want to retain my muscle and I want to refine what is there as the fat comes off. And a way I have figured to ensure I don't loose muscle mass in any significant way is by working with weights.

For people who are insulin resistant and diabetic. Many find it is essential to help keep the blood sugar lower.

As far as needing carbs to work out, I don't find that to be the case. you body will retrain itself just like mine did, to not look for carbs as a resource. Instead it will go to fat.

And from my own experience I do not get hungrier from working out.

Funny thing is I have been rearranging my exercise room this week bought a home gym and skipped two days of working out. And I have been hungrier. Is that because of lack of exercise or something else I don't know? But I just worked out tonight and we will see how I feel tomorrow.

I do know working out aside from weight loss gives me stress reduction, brought my BP under control, gave me more energy and strength when doing physical activities and it helps with my mental alertness.

My big fear is having exercise backfire. If the worst thing that happens is that I tone my muscles and reduce some stress then that is fine, even if I lose nothing. However, if I screw up my metabolism or trigger hunger in excess of what I burned this is entirely different. At this point exercise is literally causing me to GAIN WEIGHT!