Hi everyone,
I'd like to start a discussion about dietary supplements.

FULL DISCLOSURE: Currently I am taking a CarbSmart multi, 250mg magnesium, and 100mg of B-6, as well as Fiberchoice sugar free (8g fiber). I'm considering adding L-Carnitine.

My problem is that having to pop a bunch of pills morning and night makes me instinctively think that a diet where you have to do this is lacking.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE low-carbing. I love the way it makes me feel, the awesome weight loss and the body reshaping. I'm not trying to knock this way of eating at all.

I've just heard so many conflicting things about supplements that I'd like some clarity. Some have pointed out that everyone should take supplements, and the fact that low carbers tend to take more of them is just an indication of careful attention to diet.

Others are adamant that supplements are a waste of time, and one should get all necessary nutrients from whole foods and not pills.

What are your experiences with supplements? Does anyone else feel funny downing pills? What kinds of research have you guys read on various supplements? Are they necessary?

Kate,

I've tried various supplement combinations throughout the years. I have to admit that I could never tell any difference in how I felt. Currently I'm only taking a generic multi (just in case my diet falls short of something) and some fish oil. If I ate fish more frequently, I wouldn't take the fish oil. During the winter months I add vitamin D as I no longer get any made from the sunlight.

Why take vitamins?

1.Soil depletion from overfarming=less nutritous food.

2. No diet is perfect. It's really hard to have a diet that gives you ALL nutrients every day.

3.Some of the supplements you're taking are to aid weight loss, not to make up for a deficiency (i.e. L-carnitine).

4. Fish oil supplementation is, according to anti-aging doctors, the best thing you can do to keep your blood vessels 'young'.

5.Ketosis changes your metabolism, which is what causes weight loss, it also causes the body to lose electrolytes which is why supplementing with salt, magnesium, and potassium is important. I've noticed a lot of people lcing don't supplement and I can't imagine how they LC. I have to have supplements to balance my electrolytes or I feel sick.

F

Name me one vitamin, mineral or phytonutrient you can't get on a healthy low carb diet that you would only get on a high carb diet?

I'm not talking about the "all meat" diet being debated, I think you'd better stick to your supplements if that's the way you're going.

I just spent 130 bucks on 6 month supply of supplements (high quality stuff from the vitamin shop: it was their half off sale).

I take supplements not to compensate for a "deficient diet" - calorie for calorie my diet is extremely nutritious (the carbs I eat are always loaded with nutrition - fortified or natural). I take supplements to further improve upon a good thing. I have first hand experienced the power of supplementing omega 3 fatty acids on my skin, my emotional state, and my metabolism. I reason if these little fatty gel caps can make such a big difference, then, who knows what taking a complex multi vitamin and multi mineral will do? The pills I got are loaded with calcium, chromium, d3, etc...
Even if there is no difference, at least I don't have to always wonder what would happen.

I do not take supplements to compensate for my diet. My diet is extremely, extremely nutritious compared to others, when energy portions are equal. There is no comparison between animal protein, animal fat, and tons of veggies and nuts and high quality foods like that... to what most "healthy" people eat: a fat inadequate, bare, low or barely adequate protein diet loaded with crappy poor nutrition grain.
Fact: It is not an augment to health for me to swap 3 cheese spinach for potatoes (calorie for calorie). My thyme olive oil broccoli side dish is much healthier than rice. The avocados I eat every other day are not less healthy than pasta. The buttery, fatty salmon I eat twice a week is not as healthy as a skinless chicken breast in some kind of fruit sauce. Eating my meats with skin is healther than eating them without and making up the calories in starches and sugars.
My diet is very healthy.
I take supplements to make it healthier .

Lol!!!, Its The Woo!!! Do I see a convert?

I too take supplements to be a healthier me.

Oh, and I've done a ton of research on supplements via studies and papers published (by others).

My low carb way of eating is far healthier than any diet or not that I have ever been on in my life. I try and eat as many nutritious foods as I can each day. Every once in a while I randomly check to see if I am meeting my nutritional requirements with fitday and I am always meeting and exceeding them on almost everything. On top of that I also take a multivitamin, calcium, D3, l-Carnitine, CLA, ALA, cod liver oil and some other stuff. I don't take it because my diet is deficient but because, as woo said, it enhances it and makes an already healthy diet healthier.

There is no nutrient that exists in high carb foods that you cannot find in low carb foods. I think the reason you might be hearing some conflicting information is because people, on the whole, are misinformed, or it is in their best interest to give out misinformation about low carb eating plans.

Well not just yet Zuleikaa But I am a lot closer to crossing over recently . The omega 3 has made a really big difference I think, so, I'm giving multis a shot again. Last time I took vitamins I was under eating a lot and didn't noticed they helped (I always felt crappy). Now that I eat more maybe it will be different.

I'm also eating a lot less carbs and trying to sleep more so then again maybe it's just that. Ah well. EIther way, 260 dollars a year isn't such a big risk.

Just for my own curiosity I compiled a list of 5 low carb foods that are in the top 10 (including both high and low carb) of each vitamin or mineral group. I did not always list the top ones just because I wanted to add variety to the list and not mention some of the same foods repeatedly.


Fat Solubles
Vitamin A - Liver, pumpkin, Spinach, Egg yolks, Mozzarella cheese
Vitamin D - Oysters, most fish, eggs, beef, cheddar cheese
Vitamin E - Sunflower seeds or oil, peanuts/butter/oil, Avocado, olive oil, mayonnaise
Vitamin K - Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, swiss chard, beef


Water Soluble Vitamins
Vitamin C - Strawberries, tomatoes, red peppers, chili pepper, broccoli
Thiamin - Pork chops, ham, sunflower seeds, catfish, pea pods
Riboflavin - Beef liver, almonds, mackerel, clams, pork, chicken
Niacin - Beef liver, peanuts, chicken, tuna, mushrooms
Vitamin B12- clams, oysters, crab, trout, tuna
Folate - Chicken liver, broccoli, spinach, collared greens, romaine
Biotin - Peanuts, filberts, almonds, peanut butter, eggs
Pantothenic Acid - Sunflower seeds, salmon, poultry, avocados, mushrooms
Pyridoxine (B6) - Beef liver, salmon, chicken, turkey, avocado


Minerals
Calcium - Salmon, Swiss cheese, sardines, rhubarb, cottage cheese
Chromium - Broccoli, Turkey, Ham, Green Beans, onions
Copper - Beef liver, oysters, pumpkin seeds, unsweetened chocolate, tofu
Iodine - Salt, haddock, cottage cheese, shrimp, eggs, beef
Iron - Clams, liver, pumpkin seeds, beef, oysters
Magnesium - Almonds, peanuts, unsweetened chocolate, halibut, spinach
Manganese - Pecans, oysters, blackberries, spinach, pumpkin seeds
Molybdenum - Almonds, peanuts, eggs, tomatoes, cottage cheese
Phosphorus - Sardines, sunflower seeds, yogurt, salmon, chicken
Selenium - Brazil nuts, oysters, chicken liver, sardines, clams
Sodium - salt, pickles, canned broth, sauerkraut, soy sauce
Zinc - Oysters, pot roast, ground beef, turkey, chicken liver


Hope this list helps to ease your concerns.
If you are still curious, below I will post a sample standard (non crash diet) low fat day and a sample low carb (non induction) day and you can compare for yourself.

Low Fat
1351 Calories
27g fat
241g carbs
22g fiber
47g protein

Breakfast - a bowl of special k with skim milk
Midmorning snack - 1 serving of baked wheat thins with some fat free buttery spread
Lunch - Half a Subway low fat sandwich on wheat with baked potato chips and a banana
Midafternoon snack - Pretzels and diet drink
Dinner - Whole wheat Pasta with tomato sauce, a side salad with fat free dressing
Dessert - 1 scoop Fat Free frozen yogurt with a low fat vanilla wafer
After Dinner snack - Air popped popcorn


Low Carb Day
Calories - 1390
Fat - 79g
Carbs - 53
Fiber - 25 (less than 30g net carbs)
Protein - 127

Breakfast - omelette with mushrooms, spinach and cheese
Midmorning snack - 1oz mixed nuts
Lunch - Large Salad with hard boiled eggs, roast beef, turkey, blue cheese dressing and raspberries
Midafternoon snack - Celery with dip
Dinner - Salmon in a cream sauce with broccoli and mixed greens.
Dessert - Cottage cheese with cocoa and splenda
After Dinner snack - Sugar free jello with whipped cream

The low carb day ended up having slightly (under 40) more calories but the foods packed far more nutritional bang for your buck. I tried to be as fair as possible selecting whole wheat, low fat and fat free products which is exactly how I ate when I followed a low fat diet and would have thought that day was pretty healthy once upon a time. I think I will stick with my low carb.

Holy crap, MyJourney!!

This is awesome - thank you for such a clear picture and a great resource. Definitely proof that low carb is miles better than low fat in terms of nutritional value. I didn't realize it would be such a huge difference...

So, with all that, you still think we should take extra supplements?

Thanks again.

I've noticed over the years that a lot of the "experts" in nutrition have changed their views on supplementation. The idea that you should get all your nutrients from your foods was a lot more common in the old days. There was a time I believed that too, but now I require every member of my family to at the very least take a multivitamin everyday.

On the other hand I am sometimes appalled at what people will consume merely on the basis of testimonials, or because it is natural!

I do, for multiple reasons.

1) I dont agree with the RDA for everything (for example I take 2400 IU of Vitamin D instead of the reccomended 400 IU)

2) Our soil is substandard and depleted of nutrients (this is a multifactorial problem)

3) Because our fruits and vegetables are picked before they are ripe, they do not have a chance to reach their full potential by maturing on the vine

4) Many foods are radiated for extended periods of time to prevent spoilage

5) Food processing and cooking can damage the food

6) Prescription drugs and other digestive problems like IBS can affect vitamin and mineral absorbtion

7) Even if I try to eat as healthy as possible I may not get all of my nutrients

and as I said in my above post, I am adding to an already healthy diet, not trying to correct a problem with my diet.

Thank you My Journey for that analysis, it was very thorough and illuminating.
The only minor teeny tiny nit pick complaint I have is that your low fat day did not have as much fruits as someone eating low fat would eat, IMO. Your low fat menu was a little bit biased toward unhealthy eating whereas your low carber was biased more toward healthy eating. Your low fatter was eating all processed food andv ery little fresh or unprocessed foods (example: frozen yogurt vs yogurt and fruit; mid afternoon snack of pretzels vs dried apricots... baked wheat thins with butter spread instead of chopped up carrot sticks in salsa with craisins and a few seeds, etc)

Very true. I was comparing it to how I ate when I was following low fat to how I eat when following low carb. I never ate many vegetables while following a low fat diet. Usually I would have a salad a day with some lemon juice and that was the extent of it. At times I would allow myself a tsp of olive or canola oil on my salads. I would eat other things like fat free cheese, veggie burgers, soy cutlets with ketchup. I think I LIVED on fat free popcorn, rice cakes with butter spray, and whole wheat pasta with tomato sauce (I wouldnt even put olive oil in the sauce!). The only time I really ate lots of veggies while eating low fat was when I would go into my crash diet mode of cabbage soup and lots of veggies and popcorn and see how few calories I could eat.

I tried to show what a standard reasonable low fat diet from someone who is trying to maintain their weight or maybe lose 5-10 pounds rather than someone who is actively dieting and similar for low carb instead of a hardcore induction menu.

Unfortunately I only know one person who still follows a low fat diet, but she wouldnt be the best example to use. She is on this weight watchers plan where she has points and she will use up all her points eating a cookie and then have "0 point" foods for the rest of the day.

I will play around with it and put together a more unprocessed low fat food plan more in line of what you suggested.

Changing to a more whole foods low fat plan
I switched the wheat thins with fat free buttery spread to Carrot and cucumber sticks with a diet buttermilk dip.

I switched the pretzels to an apple

I switched the frozen yogurt and vanilla wafer dessert to half a cup of plain nonfat yogurt and 0.25 cup of raisins

Calories also dropped to 1310

here are the nutritional results

I added just under an ounce of soy nuts to increase the calories to 1390


I will also see if I can look up sample vegan and vegetarian plans to compare as well.