If there is one thing that the Horizon program reinforced, it is to not believe everything you watch on the TV or read in the daily papers

Maybe thats an added bonus of a lo-carb lifestyle, it opens our eyes

Hooray!! My decision not to watch it based on my instincts was right. Rar for me. Why do they always cater to the lowest common denominator anyway?

And Susan Jebb of the MRC got the last word, as usual. What makes me maddest however is that 'everyone' gets to air their opinion - everyone, that is, except low carbers themselves - those of us who have actually been on Atkins for years, have acted as our own 'controls' and *know* that we eat more calories on Atkins than we ever did on low-cal/low-fat. But we mustn't be allowed to have a voice, must we? We can't possibly be better informed than the 'experts', can we?

Truth will out in the end.

Jackie

During the Horizon program, I kept wondering why all the scary colours and lighting appeared every time the Atkins diet was mentioned. That kind of colour is normally shown in the horror films...
The tone of the presentor's voice was somewhat doubtful, the music was scary, and kept on showing awful strange perspective of images of meats and things with urine..
So, even though Horizon did mention that Atkins diet works it gave an impression of doing this diet was strangely wrong or something disgusting

Is it possible ? They actually talked positively about Atkins in the negative light?

She kept on saying people can eat as much as they want but we all know it's not the case. We should really eat between 10 to 12 times of our weight in order to lose weight. Some people overeat are surely in ketosis but don't lose any weight.

A few experiments later, Horizon tried to say the theory of Dr. Atkins is wrong and fat doesn't hold the key to the phenomenal success of weight loss but 'protein' is instead responsible.
protein suppresses appetite, not fat accordong to Horizon.

I feel they omitted lots of info about Atkins. They didn't mention lots of stuff like blood sugar levels and so on.

Some scientists are saying there are not enough research , therefore we shouldn't do the diet?
How on earth will they ever find it out if they keeps on stopping us.

Anyway, as Horizon admitted Low fat, Hi carb diets don't work but Atkins does, whatever reasons are.

Will someone who saw it please write to Horizon telling that what we've been syaing? They won't know if no-one says. See, now, I should have watched it then they'd have been on the receiving end of a sharp letter.

The music, lights, tone of voice are all used as subliminal messaging - it's an old TV/movie trick - so your brain associates the subject matter with a certain feeling. Sneaky.

I did not think the programme was that bad for current Atkins followers to watch but if I was undecided about starting the diet it would not have given me any decent information.

I was interested in the theory that a protein diet reduces appetite as I have noticed a definite change in the amount of food I consume; I am also sure that I eat less calories on Atkins than I did before.
I am not really bothered about how it works - the main thing is that it does work

Watched the Horizon program last night. It wasn't half as biased as I thought it would be (remember the appalling Trevor McDonut item on ITV3)

I feel somewhat vidicated but many at work still feel the need to question everything. I guess it's not for all people and I feel sad for them as they are still brainwashed with the low-fat falicy.

I thought the most pathetic part of the program was the trial with low fat/high fat bolonaise. These so called 'professionals' who set up the test included spagetti with both meals. They seemed to fail to take in to account one of the main principles of this WOE, you cannot mix significant carbs with fat and protein as the carbs will be converted into energy first. This experiment was totally flawed and pointless.

Again no mention of cutting back on alchohol or increasing exercise, guess that wouldn't be controversial enough.

As for long term effect, being obese for the next 20 years will effect your health as will drinking too much alchohol.. These fact are known and proven. There's no proof whatsoever that Atkins will result in problems.

As for eating too much protein and fat, if these people read the book they would see that throughout our evolution we've relied on these types of foods. Cavemen mainly ate meat, they certainly didn't have pasta and then some ice cream for desert. Our eating habits have dramatically changed over the past few hundred years. We are basically meat eaters and evolution takes place millions of years to occur. How can we expect out bodies to cope with all these excess carbs, sugar etc etc when out body just isn't designed that way?

Keep the faith, listen to your body, how can something that makes you feel so healthy be that bad for you.

Do what is right for you - you know in your heart of hearts what is right, what feels right.... as someone said earlier in this thread that they didn't matter how it works as long as it does - unless we're all scientists or whatever and have this deep rooted need to know all the chemistry behind it or is it physics? who cares - I feel healthier, I feel lighter/thinner - I feel better and for all the amount of critising the Atkins gets and will get surely what we feel is what counts...?
I know that I also get fed up with defending the way I choose to eat to the nonbelievers - so I just don't go there anymore, let them nonbelieve, let them choose their way of life like we have chosen ours - we know what's right
Good luck everybody on your low carb life - enjoy it, I know I am. xx

In response to LisaUK's post, I volunteer to contact Horizon with feedback on their programme.

I was in contact with one of the Horizon researchers a couple of months ago who contacted me via my website to ask whether I could help find someone about to start Atkins to feature in the programme. (I don't have any details on whether Brian, the dieter on the programme, actually resulted from the notice I put on my website or not). So I already have a contact with the Horizon team. I would propose to take everyone's comments, probably summarise some of them, perhaps including comments from other boards too. I'll wait a couple of days though, to give everyone time to post. I'll make all the comments/quotes anonymous but credit the boards/websites I have taken them from. Hope everyone's happy with that.

By the way, I think there are quite a few interesting discussions on the programme going on on the BBC Horizon message board - I'm going look see there after I've finished this post. If you don't know the url it's linked from my site.

Jackie Bushell

I agree with all the posts objecting to the scary music and endless exploding planets.
Mainly though I object to the lack of discussion about sugar, refined carbohydrates and their effect on appetite and health. The sugar industry has everyone by the short and curlies!
I don't agree with the protein argument. Yes I eat more and I feel better, but a very large meal could include a massive steak and people would still eat ice cream.

I thought the silliest thing was the people eating high and low fat spaghetti. Obviously high fat is nicer-people ate more. Since they had the white pasta to go with it, they remained 'hungry'.

Well, it could have been worse. What did surprise me was the assertion by the programme, in trying to make sense of the claim for calorific advantage, of the nonsensical assumption that calories were lost in the excretion of ketones? Not surprising that they found no difference in the calorie content of the two sample urine tests. Ketones are not calories.

Atkins never claimed that ketosis was to do with calories but merely stated the accurate biological fact of ketones being the byproduct of burning fat. Ketosis is merely the evidence that fat is being reduced. It occurs in starving (e.g. David Blaine), and it occurs when carbs ore very low.

Not once was the central role that insulin plays mentioned. Not once was insulin resistance mentioned. It was stated that Carbohydrate was easily metabolised but that was all.

As for Susan Jeb. Words fail me. She is funded by the flour lobby and, faced with a low carb phenomenon that actually works and reduces cholesterol to boot, limply argues that there is no long term study.

30 years of low fat has produced the biggest obesity problem in the western world in its entire history. Low fat does not surpress appetite and the regime is not sustainable in the long run. Here is a long term study. It proves failure.

If under low carb we are reducing calories without even thinking about it then this is a cause for celebration.

The amazing conclusion that Horizon came up with that protein can satisfy more and supress appetite. A claim that they say they discovered, is not new at all. A quick read of Protein Power would have got them to the same conclusion.

In the end the makers of Horizon took the populist route and missed the true science that is out there. They concentrated on "Atkins" and not the generic low carb approach.

But for all that, I regarded it as more pro than anti and I welcomed that approach.

In case you haven't visited it yet, the Horizon website has provided a complete transcript of the programme. I have linked to it from my website (under News). There are also some very interesting debates going on on the Horizon Atkins programme message board (also linked from my site). I tried putting the actual urls here but the preview converted them into funny characters, from which I assume that it's not allowed to put urls on this board. So I trust no one objects to my mentioning my site as a place to find the links.

Jackie Bushell

Here's the BBC Science Message Board website where there are several heated discussions about the Horizon programme going on right now. They promise to have several "experts" in to join in the discussions over the next few days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2...e&state=threads

thankyou jackie, what a wonderful web site uve got!!! im coming back later to pick up some tips etc..thankyou for putting it together !! kindest regards sarah