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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jun-20-17, 20:40
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
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Location: NE WA
Default Vitamin K question

I take 10000 iu of vitamin d3 - helps a lot with my SAD. I've seen mention that vitamin k should be taken with it, especially for bone health. I'm 64 & have never had a broken bone - & I never want to experience it!

Is there a consensus about it?
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 03:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
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Posts: 9,972
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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K1, K2, any other K? Whenever I start reading about K I get confused (so easy to do) and have ignored it up to know. Will look forward to hearing what others do about K.

But both K1 and K2 are found in the foods commonly eaten on LC...grass-fed butter and cheeses, eggs, meat, vegetables etc, so I have been operating under the assumption I get enough.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 05:21
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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Yes, as I see it there is little need to supplement Vitamin K.

K1 is found in leafy green veg, and converts to K2. And as Janet said, K2 is found in meat, cheese, eggs etc.

I would only contemplate supplementing Vitamin K if I had some serious illness, and I was under medical orders to do so.

And I take 10K units Vitamin D as well. I have done so for some years now with a huge improvement to my joint pain.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 06:11
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
But both K1 and K2 are found in the foods commonly eaten on LC...grass-fed butter and cheeses, eggs, meat, vegetables etc, so I have been operating under the assumption I get enough.


That's what I had been thinking, too. I eat eggs every day, and either beef or fish (does fish have K?) every day. Also greens.

Speaking of greens, I sautéed beet greens in butter the other day - I'm in love!
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 08:21
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Location: Herndon, VA
Default

I supplement with K2, not K1, in the form of MK-7 every day. One of the reasons for this is due to the property of K2 to move calcium to where it needs to go (bones, teeth) and to keep it from where I don't want it (soft tissues, arteries). There is a need for research of K in general, as I'm interested in knowing whether the supplementation is necessary. For example, could it be a factor in lowering a high CAC score? Initially, CAC was thought to be a static measurement that would never be reduced and would only increase. The issue here was how fast the CAC score would increase. Now I'm finding that since CAC is a relatively new health measurement, there are those who believe that there is a possibility of lowering it. That would be good news. There are other K2 benefits as well.

I did a lot of research on K2 and found that MK-4 and MK-7 forms are most beneficial to humans. MK-4 is in meats, cheeses, eggs. MK-7 is in fermented foods. MK-4 supplements are synthetic, MK-7 supplements are the same form as found in fermented foods. That's why I take the MK-7 supplement. I'm still open to getting the K2 I need naturally from whole foods rather than supplements, but now I'm taking supplements. I'm also reading the K1 conversion in the body to K2 is very inefficient.

Chris Masterjohn has very good information about vitamin K found here:

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016...in-k2-resource/

A couple of quotes from Chris' post:

Quote:
The Health Benefits of Vitamin K2

Vitamin K2 has a wide range of underappreciated health benefits:

- It prevents calcium from going into all the wrong places and makes sure it gets into all the right places. For example, it keeps it out of your kidneys, where it would cause kidney stones, and keeps it out of your blood vessels, where it would cause heart disease, but helps it to get into your bones and teeth, making your bones strong and your teeth resistant to cavities.
- It helps you make insulin and remain very sensitive to insulin. This means it helps stabilize your blood sugar, protects against diabetes, and prevents the metabolic problems that often arise as a consequence of obesity.
- It promotes sexual health by helping you optimize your sex hormones. For example, it increases testosterone and fertility in males, and it helps bring the high levels of male hormones found in women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) back down to normal.
- It helps improve exercise performance by enhancing your ability to utilize energy during bouts of physical activity.
- It protects against cancer by suppressing the genes that make cells cancerous and expressing the genes that make cells healthy.

Why the Form of Vitamin K You Eat Is So Important

Vitamin K comes in different forms. Vitamin K1 is primarily found in plant foods and is most abundant in leafy greens. Vitamin K2 is only found in animal foods and fermented plant foods. The term “vitamin K2 ” actually refers to a collection of more specific forms known as menaquinones that are all abbreviated “MK” with a specific number attached: for example, MK-4, MK-7, MK-10, and so on.

Does it matter whether you eat one form or another? Absolutely. There are two reasons for this, so let’s deal with them one at a time.

First, once we eat foods with vitamin K in them, our bodies handle the different forms differently. Consider these examples:

- Vitamin K1 travels to our livers more effectively than it does to our bones or blood vessels. The liver is where we use vitamin K to make the proteins involved in blood clotting, so vitamin K1 is better at supporting blood clotting than it is at providing other health benefits.
- MK-7 is much more effective than K1 at reaching bone. This doesn’t just make it good for bones: our bones use vitamin K to produce a hormone known as osteocalcin, which improves metabolic and hormonal health and increases exercise performance. Thus, MK-7 better supports these health benefits than K1 . The portion of MK-7 that reaches the liver, moreover, stays active in the liver much longer than K1 before being broken down; as a result, MK-7 is even better than K1 at supporting blood clotting.
- MK-4 is taken up by our tissues very rapidly after we consume it. While it hasn’t been studied as carefully as MK-7, it may be less effective than MK-7 at reaching liver and bone but more effective at reaching most other tissues. This would make it better at protecting those tissues from calcium deposits and cancer development and supporting sex hormone production through its direct actions within our sex organs.

Overall, then, the collection of different vitamin K2 compounds better supports all the health benefits listed above than vitamin K1 because they better reach the tissues that matter.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 08:33
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
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What's CAC? And I'm wondering if I should ask my doctor for a bone density scan - I've never had one.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 09:48
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Merpig Merpig is online now
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Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
What's CAC? And I'm wondering if I should ask my doctor for a bone density scan - I've never had one.
I had one two years ago at my gynecologist's insistence though I didn't want to do it. I was actually surprised to get a diagnosis of mild osteopenia. So what was her response? Keep this in mind if you do have the test. Without even asking me she left me a voicemail message that she had called in a perscription for Fosomax for me and I should begin taking it immediately, and to retest after 2 years on meds.

Well read up on those meds! Horrible side effects. I was not about to take the drug. I spoke to my regular internest about it and she was horrified. "NO, do NOT take that drug! Dreadful side effects for virtually no benefit".

So I just do gentle weight-bearing exercises and take my supplements - all I was doing anyway regardless of a test or not. But if a test rerveals any issue probably 95 doctors out of 100 will just whip out the prescription pad.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jun-21-17, 10:09
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
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Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
But if a test reveals any issue probably 95 doctors out of 100 will just whip out the prescription pad.


I think I have my doctor trained. The only time she sent in a prescription for me, I took the pills back to her (they had been mailed) & said no thanks. She hasn't mentioned a prescription since then.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Jun-22-17, 03:41
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JEY100 JEY100 is offline
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Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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A CAC is:

Quote:
Coronary calcium scans use a special X-ray test called computed tomography (CT) to check for the buildup of calcium in plaque on the walls of the arteries of the heart. This test is used to check for heart disease in an early stage and to determine how severe it is. Coronary calcium scans are also called cardiac calcium scoring.

The coronary arteries supply blood to the heart. Normally, the coronary arteries do not contain calcium. Calcium in the coronary arteries may be a sign of coronary artery disease (CAD).


Thread on it here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=471526


My last gynecologist check-up (a few years ago now) I asked about having a second bone density test and she said that the side effects of the Foasamax type drugs were so severe she no longer used them. So why do the test? If there was nothing to do about its results except eat well and continue weight-bearing exercise. . So my doctor was one of the 5%.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jun-22-17 at 03:54.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jun-22-17, 04:52
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
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Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100


My last gynecologist check-up (a few years ago now) I asked about having a second bone density test and she said that the side effects of the Foasamax type drugs were so severe she no longer used them. So why do the test? If there was nothing to do about its results except eat well and continue weight-bearing exercise. . So my doctor was one of the 5%.


At my annual physical a few weeks ago I talked with my doctor about a chronic pain issue that I have had for a long time. It disrupts my sleep which is a problem. She thinks it is "sacral neuropathy" probably caused by my back surgeries. She said that she could send me to a neurologist. I said if all the neurologist was going to do was confirm the diagnosis then why bother. She agreed saying that all a neurologist might do is prescribe medication, maybe a steroid, which she knew I would not be interested it. So we were both in agreement that there was no point in seeing a neurologist. I wouldn't quite put her in the 5% but she does straddle the line.

Jean
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jun-22-17, 07:35
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Posts: 2,155
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
My last gynecologist check-up (a few years ago now) I asked about having a second bone density test and she said that the side effects of the Foasamax type drugs were so severe she no longer used them. So why do the test? If there was nothing to do about its results except eat well and continue weight-bearing exercise. . So my doctor was one of the 5%.


Good point!
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