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  #16   ^
Old Sat, Aug-24-13, 19:20
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
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Hmm. I'm not sure. My rheumatologist seemed pleased that my bone density has increased. He was actually surprised as I guess it's not often that he sees improvements in middle-aged women. I will have to find out.
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-13, 05:01
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Most doctors don't know how to read the bone density scans either! The gyno who ordered mine (because I use to be on Tamoxifen) told me I had osteopenia, then the oncologist looked at the same results and said I had hips like horse (charming guy ). The T and Z scores are each done in Multiple locations so there are many numbers on the page, not all of them as important as others.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bo...SECTION=results

My new gyno (the old one had made three major errors in 3 years) doesn't bother with the scans...maybe once in ten years, because only in very rare cases would she consider prescribing the bone density drugs. So I can only guess if my scores have improved, but I think with more protein, now high Vit D levels, more mag and less calcium supplementation ( this topic has to be the most confusing of all nutrition debates!) mine are even better. No need to worry about the hips, which are likely stronger from carrying excess weight.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Aug-25-13 at 05:13.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-13, 05:17
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
But the scans are based on the average density of 25 year olds. Well Duh, I'm 62 so yes, some areas a less dense...some of mine more so.

True. But this is why my rheumatologist uses the baseline he took 4 years ago when I was 48 to measure density changes since then rather than utilizing the 25 yo values to calculate mine. I'm not sure of the make and model number of the system he uses but it provides him with a printout and he plugs the information into a formula.
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Aug-25-13, 05:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katoman
True. But this is why my rheumatologist uses the baseline he took 4 years ago when I was 48 to measure density changes since then rather than utilizing the 25 yo values to calculate mine. I'm not sure of the make and model number of the system he uses but it provides him with a printout and he plugs the information into a formula.


Whoops, I was editing while you were writing..easier way to add info when on iPad. I had two scans as well to compare, but both were when I was doing a vegetarian diet and overweight.

I wanted to add this article, why I try to get enough D, K and magnesium, and reduced calcium supplementation to little that is in my multi.
http://whole9life.com/2012/02/what-about-calcium/
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Aug-26-13, 06:51
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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I don't know a lot of details about bone density scans, but in general my understanding is that the scores compare you to women of the same age (this is according to one of my docs, hope she was right!) . So at 50 (an arbitrary age) you get a score of -3.5, meaning your bones are 3.5% less dense than average for your age. Then you begin to consciously build your bone and a few years later you are -0.3. Women of your age have likely lost bone, but you may have stabilized or maybe just lost bone at a slower rate and now your bones are .3% less dense than the average for your age. I'm not sure if it is based on %, it may be another scale, but my understanding is that the score is a comparison between you and women of your age. It is natural to lose bone as you age, but whether it is a problem depends on how much.

Last edited by Liz53 : Mon, Aug-26-13 at 06:59.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Aug-26-13, 07:15
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
I don't know a lot of details about bone density scans, but in general my understanding is that the scores compare you to women of the same age (this is according to one of my docs, hope she was right!) . So at 50 (an arbitrary age) you get a score of -3.5, meaning your bones are 3.5% less dense than average for your age. Then you begin to consciously build your bone and a few years later you are -0.3. Women of your age have likely lost bone, but you may have stabilized or maybe just lost bone at a slower rate and now your bones are .3% less dense than the average for your age. I'm not sure if it is based on %, it may be another scale, but my understanding is that the score is a comparison between you and women of your age. It is natural to lose bone as you age, but whether it is a problem depends on how much.
He actually showed my the scans from last time to now. It's actually better. So being -0.3 from my peers is perfectly fine with me.
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Aug-26-13, 08:49
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Your T-score is your bone density compared with what is normally expected in a healthy young adult of your sex. Your T-score is the number of units — called standard deviations — that your bone density is above or below the average.

Your Z-score is the number of standard deviations above or below what's normally expected for someone of your age, sex, weight, and ethnic or racial origin. If your Z-score is -2 or lower, it may suggest that something other than aging is causing abnormal bone loss.


Let's just say there is a whole lot of averaging of a whole lot of numbers with a whole bunch of standard deviation analysis thrown in for good measure.
And apparently, it also misses the real issue..the architecture of the bone:

From WebMD:

Quote:
The Bone Density Test Reality

Like other medical tests, the bone density test isn't perfect. While it can help predict who will have a fracture, and may need treatment or lifestyle changes, it's not foolproof. And, Templeton says, experts have discovered recently that the bone's architecture -- how well your bones are put together -- may also play an important role in predicting fractures.

"If you look at the women who have fractures, a lot don't have osteoporosis based on the DEXA [results]," Templeton says. Researchers speculate that in these cases bone architecture may be the problem -- but as yet, there is no realistic way to evaluate it.

Results also aren't as accurate if you are smaller or larger than average, Cosman says. So the test may underestimate your bone density if you are 5 feet tall or shorter, and may overestimate it if you are 5 feet 10 inches or taller.


Many private practices purchased these expensive DEXA machines, so they could the push some expensive bone density drugs ... and they are a bit stuck now for clients. Wish they would convert them to the body fat format..I'd go back for that

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Aug-26-13 at 09:15.
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Aug-26-13, 09:20
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Your T-score is your bone density compared with what is normally expected in a healthy young adult of your sex. Your T-score is the number of units — called standard deviations — that your bone density is above or below the average.

Your Z-score is the number of standard deviations above or below what's normally expected for someone of your age, sex, weight, and ethnic or racial origin. If your Z-score is -2 or lower, it may suggest that something other than aging is causing abnormal bone loss.




Thanks for that JEY. That explains I think why I used to get a numerical score and now just get a "normal". I'd panic if I saw a low T score, which is probably to be expected for a 60 year old.

So, katoman, to what do you attribute the increase in your bone density? I want to do that too!
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Aug-26-13, 21:12
katoman's Avatar
katoman katoman is offline
Counterweight
Posts: 1,664
 
Plan: VLC/Moderate Protein
Stats: 291/251.4/150 Female 63.25"
BF:72%/62.5%/26%
Progress: 28%
Location: NW Louisiana
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I have to guess that I stuck close enough to gain benefit from the various foods I ate while I was not active here. I tried to stick to plan but still cheated enough to put back on some of the weight I had previously lost. When I cheated, it was with cheesecake or chips... So not really sure what I did right. I do have free weights but so rarely lift that it makes little sense that it helped...
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  #25   ^
Old Tue, Aug-27-13, 07:14
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Perhaps you're utilizing nutrients better? If you figure it out, you could probably make a fortune. At any rate, congrats on the improvement.
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