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  #106   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-17, 11:07
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
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The study on the kynurenine pathway is very interesting in context. Whether niacin is a key vitamin and plays a role here is plausible. As with anything involving the metabolism, it's also plausible that the overall effect is a result of a recipe comprising multiple key ingredients depending on one another. Good stuff!

This is also consistent with recent finding of how changes at the cellular level can turn on and off genetic influence. Epigenetics is starting to uncover how our environment can directly influence our health and overcome genetic predisposition, or not, depending on what's in our environment. Dietary consumption and the microbiome is a part of our environment.
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  #107   ^
Old Sat, Mar-11-17, 14:42
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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You are right, teaser, that is pertinent! And highly interesting.

Reached a new ketogenic milestone yesterday; a 24-hour fast. It was a breeze! Niacin seems to work on me like a metabolic tuner par excellence.
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  #108   ^
Old Sun, Mar-12-17, 12:27
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sandy867 sandy867 is offline
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Plan: RNY (small portions)
Stats: 306/225/120 Female 63"
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Looks like the liver uses tryptophan to manufacture niacin. So not having enough niacin must chronically deplete tryptophan the calming, sleep and happiness inducing amino acid.

Turkey dinner anyone?
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  #109   ^
Old Sun, Mar-12-17, 18:55
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Update: a month and a week into Niacin Therapy, and it continues to make a world of difference.
  • Carb sensitivity. In thirteen years of low carbing, I have never experienced such a strong effect: it's like I'm taking a pill called Atkinsivation. I look at things that used to be somewhat tempting, and go naaaaah. There have been a couple of times when I've been very worn out and opt for the easy (my illness meant I couldn't go into ketosis and I have some higher carb things around.) But now, I feel just awful afterwards, and my sleep gets messed up that night. Ketosis and skipping breakfast isn't just easy; I also crave arranging my meals to be as low carb and IF as possible. The positive feedback is incredible: it's like I am tuned into what is actually going on in my body depending on what I eat.
  • Good sleep. If i am behaving myself (not letting stress build up, not eating too many carbs, sticking to my sleep schedule) I sleep, at last, wonderfully. Even when I am out of town and sleeping in a room I've never been in before. Lots of depth, lots of dreams, waking up tingling all over because I'm so refreshed. The effect on my healing processes is immense. As I've gradually improved my health status, my sleep has gone from 2-4 hours to 8-10 hours a night, but it was still a bit erratic. Now, I can make that happen consistently, every night.
  • Anxiety. I never realized how much anxiety I had until it went away. I was always a bit of an over-thinker, and being so sick cranked it up to eleven, but now I do mental strategies like I'm not going to worry about that now absolutely successfully. I've never been this chilled out & confident in my entire life.
  • Resilience. For years now, I've been longing for the ability to stop "draining my reserve tanks" and actually building them up instead. This is the first time since my illness developed that I've been able to feel that this vital shift in energy handling is taking place. Something very healing is going on, with a lot of things. At least, that is the way I feel. I was sick for too long for it to turn around as quickly as I'd like (I'd like NOW please!) but it is, finally, happening at a visible rate.

This experience is turned me into a total Orthomolecular fangirl. I'm sure that niacin doesn't work this way for everyone. But I am convinced that everyone will find the subject of serious nutritional therapy well worth exploring.


Hi Were Bear, This is just wonderful! I am so happy for you that this niacin is doing so much good. I've heard good things before about it but your experience is just amazing!!
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  #110   ^
Old Mon, Mar-13-17, 06:08
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
Hi Were Bear, This is just wonderful! I am so happy for you that this niacin is doing so much good. I've heard good things before about it but your experience is just amazing!!


Thank you, thank you!

It is a lesson in perseverance. Because this is far from the first stuff I've tried.

However, it was the good experience with niacin for sleep that led me to venture into the next big step.
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  #111   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 16:50
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Hi WereBear

I was just wondering about the slow release type and then I read this, that you wrote.

Quote:
Also, a lot of the "niacin" articles actually turn out to be about prescription, slow-release, or other forms of niacin that try to avoid the flush; and so, they aren't niacin. I saw the same thing when I was researching progesterone; the scariest studies were done with the artificial Progestin; but you had to dig to find that out.


So the slow release isn't real niacin? Is that right?
Thanks~Meme
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  #112   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 19:09
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
So the slow release isn't real niacin? Is that right?
No-flush "niacin" is inositol hexaniacinate or hexanicotinate. In addition to the liver damage side affect, it does have the heart health benefits. So the flush of niacin is preferable. http://www.medbroadcast.com/channel...no-flush-niacin

Last edited by deirdra : Thu, Mar-16-17 at 13:48.
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  #113   ^
Old Thu, Mar-16-17, 12:42
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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I went to the source:

Quote:
How to determine a saturation level of niacin

When you flush, you can literally see and feel that you've taken enough niacin. The idea is to initially take just enough niacin to have a slight flush. This means a pinkness about the cheeks, ears, neck, forearms and perhaps elsewhere. A slight niacin flush should end in about fifteen minutes or so. If you take too much niacin, the flush may be more pronounced and longer lasting. If you flush beet red for half an hour and feel weird, well, you took too much. And a large dose of niacin on an empty stomach is certain to cause profound flushing.

...

It is difficult to predict a saturation level for niacin because each person is different. As a general rule, the more you hold, the more you need. If you flush early, you don't need much niacin. If flushing doesn't happen until a high level, then your body is obviously using the higher amount of the vitamin.


Dr. Andrew Saul says to use the flush as a guide to dosing.

The real problem with no-flush or slow-release niacin seems to be that this is the kind that can cause liver problems. The book was quite clear than none of the doctors had seen liver issues with regular niacin.

Yet, what gets repeated all over the place, even in such "bastions of science" as WebMD and the Mayo Clinic? Beware of niacin, it causes liver damage!

Quote:
Sustained release niacin is often advertised as not causing a flush at all. This claim may not be completely true; sometimes the flush is just postponed. It would probably be difficult to determine your saturation level with a sustained- or time-released product. They are also more costly. But the biggest reason to avoid sustained-release niacin is that most reports of side effects stem from use of that form.

There is nothing wrong with niacinAMIDE, by the way. That form of vitamin B-3 is frequently found in multiple vitamins and B-complex preparations. Niacinamide does not cause a flush at all. In my opinion, it is less effective in inducing relaxation and calming effects. Niacinamide also does not lower serum cholesterol. This is an important distinction to make when purchasing.


So there you go: the flush means it's working! And trying to avoid the flush means avoiding niacin's benefits, too.
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  #114   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-17, 00:22
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Liver damage kind of scares me with the real, full flush niacin.
As far as I know, mine liver is ok, so far. Lol
I guess it would be good to be cautious not to take it with anything else that is processed through the liver like Tylenol or alcohol but the benefits that you have Warebear sure sound good!

I wonder if we become deficient in Niacin, being on low carb? I know that it's in a lot of bread products and since we don't eat bread anymore.....

Thank you ladies for all of the info
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  #115   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-17, 03:00
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
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Any large dose of niacin will have to be eliminated from the body somehow, and just because you don't have obvious symptoms, like a flush, that doesn't mean there isn't a metabolic load on the liver. Extended release might reduce the peak load, but it makes the load more chronic vs. acute.

Quote:
Niacin (nicotinic acid) is used frequently in the treatment of hypercholesteremia. It is available in both unmodified and time-release preparations. The latter were developed in attempts to minimize the skin-flushing reaction that affects virtually all users and may limit acceptance. Adverse effects on the liver from both unmodified and time-release preparations have been recognized for many years. We reviewed the literature on the hepatic toxicity of both types of niacin preparations. Adverse reactions in six patients resulted from the exclusive use of unmodified niacin and in two patients from the exclusive use of time-release preparations. In 10 additional patients, adverse reactions developed after an abrupt change from unmodified to time-release preparations. Many of these patients were ingesting time-release niacin at doses well above the usual therapeutic doses currently recommended. Signs of liver toxicity developed in less than 7 days in four of these 10 patients. In doses that achieve equivalent reductions in serum lipids, hepatic toxicity occurred more frequently with time-release preparations than with unmodified preparations. An awareness of toxicity associated with ingestion of high doses of time-release niacin preparations is important because of their widespread availability and the potential for self-prescribed, unmonitored use.


http://www.amjmed.com/article/0002-...0018-7/abstract
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  #116   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-17, 05:25
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patriciakr patriciakr is offline
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Plan: CALP with Primal Leanings
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Progress: 37%
Location: In the woods
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I am finding this very interesting. I ended up off my anti-depression med and realized I was sl. better off, so never went back on (been a couple of months now), but love what I am reading about niacin. Don't love what I am reading about afib side effect potential as I already have that, and don't want to poke the sleeping bear (it's pretty much under control).

Since right now I am taking no vit bs, think I will look for a low dose complex that will include niacin, to see if even a tiny amount, will give me a benefit.

Your results are inspiring, and having read through some of your journal, just am very happy for you.
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  #117   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-17, 06:24
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriciakr
Your results are inspiring, and having read through some of your journal, just am very happy for you.


Thank you! I hope I've been helpful.

While water-soluble vitamins don't have the same staying power as the fat-soluble ones, teaser is quite right to point out risks of taking too much. Like so much of what we are discovering, though, that "too much" varies by person. I didn't get dramatic results until I took a dramatic amount; but then, I have a dramatic problem.

Nausea, a deep flush, and intense itching are all signs a person is taking too much. I'm not getting that at this dose. Others, might.
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  #118   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 04:59
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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After a highly stressful day of a conference, sped up by a blizzard, and then barely making it home through the blizzard, I had trouble bouncing back.

It's hard to tell if a persistent nausea is from sensory overload or a sign I'm taking too much niacin, but out of caution I cut back to two doses instead of three. I also tried a new relaxation technique which I know worked, and things are improving. When they are stable I will try upping my dose; or if my symptoms come back.

I may have "topped off" like I did when first taking magnesium; and don't need that much any more.
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  #119   ^
Old Wed, Mar-22-17, 06:23
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Plan: VLC, mostly meat
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Werebear, if it can help, I wanted to figure out why niacin provides benefits. I think I found something. Niacin is antifungal.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...00708141617.htm

It may or may not be pertinent to you personally, but I see how niacin can be used as a diagnostic tool. If there is a fungal infection, niacin will have a specific effect. If there is no fungal infection, niacin will have a different specific effect. Based on the effect, we can determine if there is a fungal infection.

A fungal infection can cause various symptoms depending on the specific tissue infected. For example, skin = rash/lesions/etc, or stomach = acid reflux/indigestion/etc. I want to avoid projecting my own experience to yours, but I think that you and I have a common problem - the liver is somehow affected by some disorder of some kind. In my case, it's obvious to me that if my liver is affected by a disorder, it's affected by the same disorder that affects other tissues on my body, including my skin where there's several patches of obvious infection, most likely some fungus, even more likely candida. If my liver is infected (by candida or something else), everything is wrong, because the liver controls everything, especially the various hormones that regulate energy supply. If energy supply is disrupted at its foundation, other hormones take over to compensate, i.e. cortisol and epinephrine for example, both of which also cause stress and anxiety especially when chronically elevated. In turn, other systems become disrupted indirectly through various means, such as lack of sleep that will interfere with growth hormone for example, which is otherwise essential for good health.

OK, enough of me. The point is niacin is antifungal and can be used as a diagnostic tool specifically to determine if there is a fungal infection. I don't know if niacin can be used on its own to treat a fungal infection. If it can, then it should treat it and whatever symptoms there were should disappear along with the fungus. How long that would take, I don't know. The point here is that the effect of niacin should now be different because there is no longer an infection. Again, based on the effect, we can determine if the infection has been treated.

I'm just saying, it's something to investigate.
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  #120   ^
Old Thu, Mar-23-17, 06:12
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
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Niacin is anti-fungal! That is fascinating. Especially since high carb diets are known to feed candida overgrowth. Several years ago I did some oregano oil in water as a daily thing, since many people got spectacular good results from it, but it didn't seem to be my issue. That was the anti-candida supplement of choice at the time.

I am skipping my non-meal dose for a bit, I'm back to 2 meals and an eating window, and I don't know if anything I changed is the problem. But I will be on alert to see if my issues that the niacin fixed come back: so far, it's easy to stick to my eating window, like before.

And sleep has been great.

While the day at the conference/blizzard seems to have triggered a downturn in my condition, that might have nothing to do with the niacin. But the book does discuss how our needs can vary; just as we need more vitamin C when under stress, so it goes with niacin.

Last edited by WereBear : Thu, Mar-23-17 at 07:14.
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