Thanks, Yvonne. Good to know I'm not suffering alone. And good to hear it'll get easier. I actually feel pretty good today. Ate breakfast earlier than usually and still haven't eaten lunch (it's almost 3 pm). Not hungry.

I'm sorry if i seem so dense, but I just trying to understand. It seems that for you, Aradasky, retaining some water is a good thing. Am I understanding correctly?

You are asking questions that will make this way of eating fit into your life. Don't apologize.


Yes, It is a good thing for me. If I try to lose that last pound by eliminating salt, I get horrible leg cramps. And for me it usually just one pound that is due to salt. Others say they hold on to more.

My ketones were 2.9 this morning. I went back to adding coconut oil to my coffee this morning, but this reading was taken before I had the coconut oil.

I a low carb diet is super diuretic and it takes out a lot of electrolytes with it, thus the cramps and constipation. The whole point of using salty broth is to make you retain some water.

Thank you! This finally makes sense. After years of potassium supplements, I really just needed to add salty broth!

You are clearly in NK. Do you find it accelerates the weight loss for you?

Does anyone know what Phinney means by reference weight? Current weight?
Goal weight?
Lean body mass?
or something else?

Yes. No. I don't know. Actually, I'm not sure I have enough data to know.

I've always had a hard time losing. And recently I've been slowly gaining. That I'm actually back down to 226 is a minor miracle IMO. The last time I saw that weight was April 2011 (when I embarked on a disastrous month-long gluten-eating spree in order to do a blood test for gluten sensitivity - which, of course, came back negative, telling me nothing and leaving me with 10 more pounds I couldn't shift).

During my first serious bout with LC in 2008, I dropped from 250+ to 205 over about 8 months (I think). I quickly bounced back up over 210, and since then it's been a steady climb with plateaus at about 214, 220, and 230. Most recently I was gaining again.

Usually my weight goes up when I get it into my head to try something new in the hopes of getting the numbers to start going back down. Until this current experiment, every single attempt resulted in a gain rather than a loss. And once I gain, the weight stays despite going back to the pre-experiment diet. So, as you can imagine, I'm delighted to see any loss.

I started this current experiment, I think, when Arlene posted the link to Jimmy Moore's n=1 post. Early July? I was 236. I lost 2 pounds (water weight, I'm sure) in 2 days, then nothing for like 2 weeks (well, essentially nothing - I was doing a lot of bouncing up and down). Finally I bought a decent food scale and started weighing everything I ate and keeping track of ratios. That's actually when I started losing. This last week the loss has slowed a lot.

The thing is I didn't start testing ketones until August 5. And it was only .7 then. I had a huge loss in that week period when I got that reading. Subsequent ketone readings are much higher, but the weight loss is slower. I'm not sure that tells me much, though. Weight loss always slows after the initial big drop when you tighten your diet.

In summary: I'm not sure.

P.S. I'm feeling much better these last two days, so I think I can sustain this diet indefinitely. And there's one huge benefit that I'm really enjoying. I'm spending a lot less on food. I'm truly amazed. Now if the price of gas would go back down a bit, I might actually be able to live within my budget.

Phinney also says that calories still count. We cannot get away from that.

I used the weight I wanted to be. But if it too far away do it in 20lb increments.

That's what Phinney says anyway. I hope it works, I'm headed for ketosis land again myself.

I think he said 2 cups a day.

I defiantly believe the broth works. Over the last month i have been having intense chicken broth cravings!

I also found home made egg drop soup to do the trick, just drip a beaten egg into your 2 cups of broth as it boils. Its more like food where the plain broth is more like a drink.

Well, there are different views on that. I tend to subscribe to what I understand the Taubesian view to be: we eat more when we're fattening. Presumably then we'll eat less when we're slimming.

I've seen and experienced far more that ratifies Taubes' view than Phinney's - which is apparently the standard calorie-restricted diet advice, with a layer of ketogenic diet on it. I believe Volek and Phinney's specialty is athletic performance while eating a ketogenic diet, not weight loss.

I personally believe we're all so brain-washed by the calories-in, calories-out dogma that we've been fed all of our lives that few people question it. I know I'm in the minority - even on this forum. I do tend to be a purist on the topic. I believe low-carb works for people like me because it alters the hormonal balance and allows fat to be released and made available for energy. If the hormones (insulin, maybe some others?) aren't at a level to allow the fat to be used for fuel, reducing calories will only make you weak and hungry. If the hormones are at level to allow the fat to be used for fuel, your appetite will decrease and you'll be inclined to eat less.

Besides the fact that this theory simply makes sense, it corresponds with my observations:

1. I personally lost 40 pounds spontaneously with no effort, and without changing my diet, and while exercising less, during a year and a half when I lived in the Caribbean. When I moved back home, I steadily gained back to my previous weight. Clearly, something in that environment altered something in me. I'm sure I was eating fewer calories when I was losing. But I doubt I was losing, because I was eating fewer calories. I simply wasn't as hungry, because my body was burning stored fat. (Btw, I stayed at that weight for about 5 years, until I began a vegan diet - which was the single worst decision of my life. I gained 50 pounds in 4 years, and I've never been anywhere near a normal weight since.)

2. I've tried repeatedly to lose weight by cutting calories - and failed each time. And I have to say I'm not alone in this. Tons and tons of people have had the same experience. Relatively few have successfully lost and maintained a large amount of weight by merely cutting calories.

3. Psychotropic medications are notorious for causing weight gain. My own son piled on 40 pounds in the months after starting on an antipsychotic. And he lost 20 when the dose was reduced. Yes, his hunger increased, and he ate more while he was gaining. But why? I'm convinced that something in those meds changes the way the body partitions fuel. It's not a coincidence IMO that AP's increase risk of diabetes.

But no matter how you look at it, I am consuming fewer calories.

My body has brain-washed me about calories. I simply don't lose unless I watch them.

I think low carb/ketogenic helps because it cuts your appetite, but the mechanism remains the same -- lower calories. The good part is that it is easy... much easier than if you're not in ketosis. For most of us anyway.

I also think I'm probably cutting calories now because I'm tracking fanatically. It's really hard too many calories when you have to limit the amount of protein you're eating.

It's a little hard to say though unless you're tracking fastidiously. Otherwise it's all guess work.