Hi! I've been reading up on CKD, and am planning on starting in the next month or so (once I've gotten and read a book or two). It just makes so much sense, and to be completely honest, carbing up sounds way fun.

Are Snackwell's cookies and other low-fat goodies (I see they have some sugar-free kinds now, but I don't know if they'd be suitable for the ketosis phase) suitable? I don't know what's in them, and I can't find the information on the Kraft or Nabisco sites (grr).

Has anyone else used these for carbing-up, or are they full of HFCS or something?

Thanks!

Ive had the Snackwell Devil's Food cookies before on carb ups. Basically if you want to keep it simple just keep your foods high carb and low fat.

Hope this helps.

Thanks! I just wasn't sure (due to trouble finding information online for some reason) whether these were good for carb-up. And I'm still a little scared of the cookie aisle. LOL

Cookie often contain Trans fats and hence should be avoided during both the low-carb and carb-up phases.

Try also to not go overboard on the fructose, the aim is to replenish muscle glycogen, whereas fructose will preferentially replenish liver stores.

As already stated by other, try to be lowish fat, too low in fat and you will feel cr*p during your carb-up as your body is still using fat for fuel.

Thanks for your reply, IPR, but unfortunately, it was all information I already knew from my CKD research (aside from spending three days (!) reading this whole forum, I've been all over the internet checking it out).

Snackwell's used to sell a whole line of low fat or fat free cookies, but I can't find nearly the selection anymore, and I hadn't had a chance to check the label. That's why I asked about the HFCS (high fructose corn syrup). I want to avoid it.

As for the low fat, I'm still trying to work out an ideal grammage to shoot for. I'm a pretty small person, so I was thinking 50-60g tops. That's about 25-30% of what I'm used to eating on LC.

How long have you been on CKD now? I start (with my very first carb-up!) August 1st! I'm looking forward to it!

Sorry for stating the obvious.

Personally I don't know the maker you mention. For carb-ups how much fat is always a concern, less so for a shorter vcarb-up, more so for the 48hr version. My rule of thumb on teh longer one is to simply swap fat and carb % from usual LC week, but this can be a bit low IMO. Your 50-60g sounds fine.

I've been on CKD for around a year, its just my way of life now.

A year? Wow! Does that mean you don't cycle on and off? I'm planning on 8 weeks, at least to start, before cycling off. I'd like to see my quads again.

Thanks for the explanation of fat. As much as I've read, nothing seems very concrete. It looks like some people can get away with all sorts of fat on the carb-up, while others prefer (need?) to keep it low.

I will be doing a 24 hour carb-up, just to be safe and ensure than I don't get out of hand and all-out binge. LOL I've seen figures around 90g as top limits for fat on carb-up, but they were given by and for people much bigger than I am, so it seemed right to lower my numbers. Thanks for your reassurance!

I HIGHLY suggest a 24 hour carb up......

In my opinion this really lessens the possible damage you could do if your carb up gets "sloppy" and it also will give you more time in ketosis to burn fat.

As you mentioned some people can eat whatever "junk" they want with great results....Id suggest tracking your progress and see what level of a carb up you need. So far Ive been dropping 1.5 pounds of just fat per week and my carb ups have been 24 hours of literally as many carbs I could get down my mouth Once my progress stalls one week I will tighten the ship so to speak. But until then keep passing the carbs.....5 percent here I come!

KC.....I follow a similar approach but have recently dropped to a 12hr carb-up and mid-week refeed.

I have read some studies (sorry don't have the link at hand) which showed that full repleting of muscle glycogen occurs in 24hrs.

Tweaking to find what works for you is very important, its not a one size fits all I'm afraid.

Alopex....although I am on CKD fulltime, I do cycle bulking and cutting. I have found bulking on keto works quite well. The times I do come off CKD is during holidays or extended business trips, then all bets are off and I eat anything and everything

Would you mind detailing your mid week refeed a bit more? As it seems you are very knowledgable about CKD's would you mind if I asked a few questions?

Im currently at 7.1 percent bodyfat and am trying to hit 4 or 5 for a show in September.......as my body fat gets lower is there anything I should change about my program? Ive read a few things that says the lower you go that you might need to do a midweek refeed like the one you mentioned.

Any insight you might have would be greatly appreciated!

KC.....expert ...LOL.

Sorry I'm not experienced with comp. preparation, but my 2 cents worth.

At your bf% I would definitely recommend a mid-week refeed. Many people myself included make this just one meal midweek, the evening meal. It should be low-fat if possible and high calorie, don't worry about your calorie count for thsi meal as the aim is to boost leptin levels and raise/maintain your metabolic rate.

Some others suggest a 6hr refeed, and this makes alot of sense in boosting leptin levels. In this case treat it more like a mini carb-up, but again finish with the evening meal.

If you have been doing a 48hr carb-up I would probably drop that to 24hrs when you add the refeed, especially it its a 6hr version.

Hope this is of some help.

Thanks IPR!

Ive been doing a 24-30 hour carb up on weekends so far. Im usually done training at 6:00PM on Wed night so maybe I could carb up from 6 until bedtime? Thats usually around 10:00 or 10:30........

For your midweek refeed what types of foods do you carb up with? Liquid glucose? Any "normal" foods like cereal?

I appreciate your input, Im going to get my body fat done again on Friday and if there is any slowdown on fat loss I will throw in a weekly refeed next week. Im getting a little concerned my metabolism is slowing down as my temp this morning was only 96.6! Ut Oh

I appreciate your help with this, even though Im having great results Im still a CKD newbie

This CKD stuff is so much fun!

IPR--I have also found that bulking on keto works for me too, but apparently it's not supposed to. I've gained at least 6lb LBM since I started, probably more. I'll find out Friday, when I do my pre-carb-up measuring and calculations.

As for refeeds and such, there is a good article on the web:

http://www.theministryoffitness.com...s/article18.htm

It recommends that once you get below 20% bf, you need to increase refeeds because your body can't get as much mileage from your fat (i.e. you don't have very much left).

There's a chart halfway down showing the recommended correlation between bf% and frequency of refeeds. According to the chart, you both look like you need to be refeeding more and for longer, though bear in mind that everyone needs to find what works for them, and the chart just gives general guidelines. I think activity level would also have a big impact on one's need to refeed.

I guess you could try it and see if it helps. Might actually get your temp. back up too, KC. Good luck, and happy carbing!

Thanks Alopex............I had read that article before, the thing that gets me is that in my mind I want to stay in ketosis as long as possible during the week so I can burn off this remaining fat. I know Im just being stubborn and you would think I would jump all over the chance to carb 2 times a week but Im nervous to disrupt what has been working so well so far!

My plan is to have my bf done again this Friday as normal and see how my progress has been since last week. If I have stalled at all next Wednesday Im going to throw in a 4 hour carb refeed of Phosphagen HP and cereal.............

Ill post here my progress on Friday.........

By the way is is Saturday yet? Ive had enough tuna and mayo for a lifetime! haha

I know what you mean, KC. Why jeopardize the progress you've made by taking potentially bad advice, right?

How's this then? You mentioned you're a CKD newbie. How new? Because, as you may already know, LC newbies tend to reap a "newbie bonus" for about a month or two, before their bodies figure out what's going on and compensate. If you're still in that period of time for CKD, and your bf still shows improvement, do what's been working (although, like IPR, I do think that at 7% you should refeed at least a little during the week, even if only for fueling purposes).

(LOL, I wish it were Friday. My sugary goodies are calling to me.)