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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Nov-30-06, 21:43
jwilson65's Avatar
jwilson65 jwilson65 is offline
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Plan: Atkins OWL or abouts...
Stats: 195/188/165 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Alaska
Default Lifting versus Cardio

Is it important to do your weight routine prior to cardio or vice versa?

I just know that it's easier for me to push cardio after weights than it is in the weight room after a long cardio session...

Does any one have a preference or know about a study that specifies which order to do them?

Thanks
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Nov-30-06, 22:05
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
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Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwilson65
I just know that it's easier for me to push cardio after weights than it is in the weight room after a long cardio session...
Thanks


IMO, you answered your own question.

From a safety standpoint, I'd rather do weights first when I'm fresh. No study is going to change that as far as I'm concerned.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 00:29
Arie's Avatar
Arie Arie is offline
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Plan: low carb & Atkins
Stats: 318/296/195 Male 5' 10"
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Location: Northern California
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It depends on the day... Sometimes, when I am sluggish, or it is early in the morning, I will do 10-15 minutes cardio to warm up and get the blood flowing., and then lift. after I life I do a session of cardio..


It is not a good idea to lift weight without warming up.. it is a recipe for injury..
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 05:40
galatia's Avatar
galatia galatia is offline
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Plan: low carb
Stats: 173/135.8/130 Female 5'4"
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http://www.muscleandfitnesshers.com...timetoburn.html

On the flip side, if shaping the body of your dreams is your main objective, you may want to save cardio for after your weight workout. "An intense cardio workout will take away from an effective weight-training workout," Olson says. "Cardio burns both fat and carbs, and those carbs won't be available for weight training if you do cardio first. That's a problem since they're the key source of energy for weight training; you may not be able to lift at a beneficial intensity."

You can also burn more fat by increasing your lean mass, which eats up calories all day long. So for building a little muscle, weight training should take priority in your workout. This way, your energy level will be high and your intensity won't suffer during the part of your program that matters most to you. You may not be able to work at the same intensity if you do cardio after weights -- especially on leg day -- but you might tap into fat stores more quickly.

Bottom Line
Put cardio first if endurance performance is your main focus. Otherwise, "You'll burn more fat and total calories by doing cardio after weight training,"
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 06:25
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Demi Demi is offline
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Plan: Muscle Centric
Stats: 238/153/160 Female 5'10"
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Progress: 109%
Location: UK
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You might find the following article of interest:

Quote:
Resistance is useful

For years we've been told the only way to burn off fat is endless hours of aerobic exercise. But now researchers say the secret lies in 'resistance training'. By Fiona Russell

Thursday July 6, 2006
London, UK
The Guardian

For decades the experts have been telling us to exercise more, harder and longer, to burn body fat. Run, power-walk, row, trampoline ... do whatever bores you least, but increase your cardiovascular training. Now comes the latest advice: do less cardio - but burn more fat. The key, say scientists, is resistance training. This could mean lifting light weights or using the body's own weight as resistance, with squats, press-ups and lunges.

According to research from Glasgow University currently under review, the rate at which body fat is burned can be significantly increased when you precede any aerobic activity with 20 minutes of press-ups and squats.
"This is a breakthrough for both sedentary people and fit people," says Dr Niall MacFarlane, one of the authors of the study. The research - which monitored 11 fit volunteers over three weeks - suggests that if exercisers include a 20-minute session of resistance training prior to working out aerobically, the fat-burning benefits are two to three times greater. This means the easily breathless don't need to huff and puff for such a long stretch - and exercise aficionados can achieve better results in the same period of time.

"In fact," says MacFarlane, "because resistance training helps to switch on the body's fat-oxidation [burning] processes quicker, it also means people will be able to endure longer subsequent aerobic exercise."

Until now, anyone exercising aerobihas probably been told they need to keep going for at least half an hour to see significant results. At the start of a session, an untrained body uses a higher proportion of sugars, or carbohydrates, mainly stored in the muscles and liver, to fuel energy expenditure. (It is harder for our body to source energy from fat stores than from carbohydrates.) This reliance on carbohydrate can lead to early depletion of muscle glycogen and fatigue - and tired people tend to give up before they have started to burn fat.

For them especially, the research could be a boon. The Glasgow team believes that 20 minutes of resistance training enables the body to use fat as an energy fuel much sooner. The body will burn fat right from the start. And because the body is using fat to fuel the muscles instead of carbohydrate, the muscles do not tire as quickly and can endure longer sessions."This is especially good news for the sedentary person or the very overweight," says MacFarlane.

The happy news doesn't end there. Three one-hour sessions a week should be adequate - and nothing too strenuous either. Forty minutes' brisk walking after 20 minutes' easy resistance training (eg lunges without weights with rests in between sets) should suffice. "The fat-burning potential of this hour is the equivalent of two hours' hard running," claims MacFarlane.

Juliette Cassidy, 33, from Glasgow, is a convert to the resistance-CV combo. Not so long ago, she had a demanding regime, running five times a week and competing in ultra-marathons of up to 100 miles. But a year ago, on the advice of a personal trainer, she switched to two 30-minute sessions a week of weights and resistance work, including barbell lifts, press-ups, straight weight lifts, lunges and squats, while running less. "My body shape has completely changed," she says. "I have much more muscle, and while I weigh more, my physique is slimmer. I have less fat on my hips, bum and thighs and everything is more toned."

Not everyone is surprised by the Glasgow research. "We've always known resistance training is a good thing in terms of fitness," says Mike Johnstone, national endurance coach for Scottish Athletics. "Even if an unfit person was doing only resistance training you would expect to see fat burn. Anything that makes you move quickly, such as sit-ups and press-ups, will help you lose weight.

"The more muscles a person has compared with fat, the more efficient the body is at burning fat and calories. I still believe in the traditional premise that we should all be exercising more, especially aerobically, and for longer periods to improve general fitness. If this gets people up and exercising in the first place, it has to be a good thing. Hopefully, they will then stick at it and increase the intensity."

There are benefits, too, for those who already exercise. Instead of spending an hour sweating on the treadmill and lifting weights, people will find enhanced benefits from a resistance session followed by an easier run. "The more resistance training and aerobic exercise they do, the better the fat-burning benefits are and the greater their endurance," says MacFarlane. "If they are able to do more, that's good, but what we're saying is, you don't have to kill your-self to see fat loss."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/health/st...1813677,00.html




I personally do do my weights before cardio because I am trying to burn fat.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 07:05
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galatia galatia is offline
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Plan: low carb
Stats: 173/135.8/130 Female 5'4"
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Good article Demi.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 08:09
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jwilson65 jwilson65 is offline
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Plan: Atkins OWL or abouts...
Stats: 195/188/165 Female 66
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Wow thanks everyone. That's what I had assumed. I'm trying to lose as much BF as possible in the next 3 weeks so this should help a lot.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 08:16
jwilson65's Avatar
jwilson65 jwilson65 is offline
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Plan: Atkins OWL or abouts...
Stats: 195/188/165 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Alaska
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Oh and one more question...I actually favor fat on my lower half, especially thighs, and butt and i've been trying to work these areas 2-3 time per week to get the fat loss moving.

My question is for squats...how do I know when I should be adding more weight? Should I be doing more reps (ex: 3 sets of 20 reps x bar (45lbs) is what I currently do...) or more weight with less reps? The same with lunges...

Because I hurt my back from improper lifting 2 years ago I've been tenetive to increase in this area for fear of reacurring injury...

Thanks again !!!
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 09:58
galatia's Avatar
galatia galatia is offline
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Plan: low carb
Stats: 173/135.8/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Mississippi
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I would advise you go heavier weight so your rep range is more 8-10, full squats. Keep the weights so your rep range is around 8-10 on most things. And don't set a number in your head and stop at that number......use enough weight to make the 8-10 range all you can do. Your first set would probably be around 10 your last set around 8. Now....that is a "range." So if sometimes you can only get 6 your last set that's fine.....and if sometimes you get 12 your first set....that's fine (probably a sign to increase weight). You'll learn when to increase weights by how the exercise feels....the intensity for you. And do NOT sacrifice form for pounds. Form is most important. Injury, as you know, causes huge setbacks. Keep vanity out of it. Feel the muscles, when things aren't feeling right, stop. There is good muscle fatigue, it's not painful. Sorry, I've gotten carried away here.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 11:30
jwilson65's Avatar
jwilson65 jwilson65 is offline
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Posts: 1,824
 
Plan: Atkins OWL or abouts...
Stats: 195/188/165 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galatia
I would advise you go heavier weight so your rep range is more 8-10, full squats. Keep the weights so your rep range is around 8-10 on most things. And don't set a number in your head and stop at that number......use enough weight to make the 8-10 range all you can do. Your first set would probably be around 10 your last set around 8. Now....that is a "range." So if sometimes you can only get 6 your last set that's fine.....and if sometimes you get 12 your first set....that's fine (probably a sign to increase weight). You'll learn when to increase weights by how the exercise feels....the intensity for you. And do NOT sacrifice form for pounds. Form is most important. Injury, as you know, causes huge setbacks. Keep vanity out of it. Feel the muscles, when things aren't feeling right, stop. There is good muscle fatigue, it's not painful. Sorry, I've gotten carried away here.


Cool thank you! Like I've said, I've been pretty nervous about adding more weight since the injury but I feel like now is the time.

I also have my trainer (from 4 years ago when I was *new*) telling me "3 reps of 20, 3 reps of 20" so that's what's I aim for at the gym.

I'm gonna increase my weight though and hopefully it will help speed this fat loss along.

Thanks again for your expertise!!
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 20:56
kbfunTH's Avatar
kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
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Posts: 1,240
 
Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
Progress: 100%
Location: Pflugerville, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwilson65
I also have my trainer (from 4 years ago when I was *new*) telling me "3 reps of 20, 3 reps of 20" so that's what's I aim for at the gym.



20 reps squats have been around for many decads. Lots of pro bodybuilders have used them. Tom Platz did (along with tons of roids too)
http://www.athlete.ru/fotos/profi/t...m_platz_007.jpg


There is a school of thought that feels sets of 20 rep squats is the best way to build 'BIG' legs. It works, but it's not the only way to achieve this. If you like 3x20 for squats, do them, but alternate from time to time as well. This applies to everything. I would personally rather do 20 sets of 3 reps primarily as strength is my main focus.

An article you might find helpful.
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/151/

Last edited by kbfunTH : Fri, Dec-01-06 at 21:07.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Dec-01-06, 21:21
jwilson65's Avatar
jwilson65 jwilson65 is offline
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Posts: 1,824
 
Plan: Atkins OWL or abouts...
Stats: 195/188/165 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Alaska
Default

This is kind of an ignorant question...but is it possible for me to lose 6 - 8 lbs of body fat in 3 weeks? I'm probably opening a can of worms on this one, but I'm just curious. I feel like I am busting my tail at the gym, eating according to my plan *I'm doing M/E / Atkins Induction* and drinking over a gallon of water a day...

I'm really trying to lose this much (more hopefully) before Christmas but don't want to be dissapointed if it does not happen. I want to lose inches from my legs so I'm doing heavy legs and also heavy cardio...

Hope I'm not pushing too hard... *sigh*
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Dec-02-06, 15:33
galatia's Avatar
galatia galatia is offline
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Posts: 13,640
 
Plan: low carb
Stats: 173/135.8/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Location: Mississippi
Default

Quote:


There is a school of thought that feels sets of 20 rep squats is the best way to build 'BIG' legs. It works, but it's not the only way to achieve this. If you like 3x20 for squats, do them, but alternate from time to time as well. This applies to everything.

I agree. One thing I have learned....there is no "one right way" in bodybuilding. There are many school's of thought....and most of them work fine. Challenge your muscles, eat to feed them, let them rest....and watch them grow!

I don't know how to answer that fat loss question. Maybe someone else can help you. I usually hesitate advising anything. About time I think I understand something....the rules change on me again. Always read comments with that in mind. Try things for yourself and see what feels right and works well for you.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Dec-02-06, 16:03
jwilson65's Avatar
jwilson65 jwilson65 is offline
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Posts: 1,824
 
Plan: Atkins OWL or abouts...
Stats: 195/188/165 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Alaska
Default

Thanks Galatia! No worries, I think I'm just nervous about not reaching goal during "my time frame". I'm being ridiculous.

I can already notice a difference in the shape of my legs and abs. Also my top half but that's of little concern to me.

Thanks for the advise...I'm heading back to the gym to get my cardio over with...

Have a great day!
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Dec-10-06, 00:46
RobLL RobLL is offline
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Plan: generalized low carb
Stats: 205/180/185 Male 67
BF:31%/14?%/12%
Progress: 125%
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Haven't seen it mentioned on this site, but The New Rules of Lifting by Schuler and Cosgrove is really good. They, and Cassandra Forsythe are coming out with a book for women in not too long. I rec. NROL for both men and women. I'm getting the women's book for my wife, and for myself when it comes out.

They discuss HIIT, High Intensity Intervals, as preferable to standard cardio. That is unless you like to and want to do standard cardio, or train for marathons. Although I can't imagine why anyone would want to train for or run a marathon unless your body was really good at it. Mine isn't
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