Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-18, 16:56
SabreCat50 SabreCat50 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 162
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 220/188/170 Male 6 ft 1 in
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: Oakland, Florida, USA
Default New Gary Taubes article

From the MIT Technology Review...

Researchers find a way to mimic clinical trials using genetics

A new way to determine if associations in epidemiological studies are causal or not -- using genetics.

Quote:
Today, Mendelian randomization may have settled some of the thorniest issues of cause and effect facing heart doctors—including not just HDL (not causal) and homocysteine (not causal) but also the LDL particles that carry "bad" cholesterol (causal) and even C reactive protein, a measure of the inflammatory process that got considerable media attention as a potential cause of heart disease and now, also, seems to be no more than an association.


LDL causes for heart problems???
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-18, 18:01
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Interesting article, and the sobering observation is the potential for misuse, which I believe has already started.

Yes, LDL particles that carry "bad" cholesterol (causal) with "bad" being the key. Now, the next question is whether particle size is considered good or bad cholesterol, as the assumption today is that preponderance of small particles is causal.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Wed, Sep-05-18, 18:18
SabreCat50 SabreCat50 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 162
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 220/188/170 Male 6 ft 1 in
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: Oakland, Florida, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Interesting article, and the sobering observation is the potential for misuse, which I believe has already started.

Yes, LDL particles that carry "bad" cholesterol (causal) with "bad" being the key. Now, the next question is whether particle size is considered good or bad cholesterol, as the assumption today is that preponderance of small particles is causal.


It would have been nice if Taubes had been a little more specific with that comment. Too many people will take this as confirmation of what the establishment has been saying all along.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 07:03
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

There's more than enough evidence to recommend at least a whole foods diet for everyone; some people seem to do well with the Weston Price thing.

But that would be a disaster for corporations who buy tons of advertising.

Story of our modern lives.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 10:07
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I have a problem with the Weston Price Foundation, same problem I have with Paleo 2.0. Too many differences from the modern lifestyle to be certain just why they work. Kurt Harris stayed paleo just long enough to talk about paleo re-enactment not being the goal--I think it is the goal. Is it the lectins, is it the gluten, is it the fat soluble vitamins, is it the phytic acid, is it the fermentation, is it the.. McDonald's is just a sourdough and grass-fed special sauce Big Mac, and beef tallow french fries away from satisfying the Western Price foundation, and sorry, that might be better, but it's still a pretty cruddy diet in my book. I think it's plausible that if I went and lived with the Kitivans (not paleo technically, but...) and lived as they lived, and ate what they ate--then maybe their diet rich in sweet potato and cassava would be good for me. I'd hate to have to start smoking, though.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 10:20
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Having read a bit of the Weston PRice website, after reading The Dental DIet, I was taken aback by how far our modern foods and preparation has taken us from the "old ways". Determining what stresses the body the least is likely the way to optimal health.

I cant find my way to eleminating the microwave; but prefer to not let sons fire up the grill too often as charded food is more than suspect.

Perhaps just getting EVERYONE to improve their diets will benefit us all ( ie medical costs) rather than be overly concerned about the LDL as if it was the only health criteria.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 10:45
SabreCat50 SabreCat50 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 162
 
Plan: modified Atkins
Stats: 220/188/170 Male 6 ft 1 in
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: Oakland, Florida, USA
Default

Werebear, teaser, Ms Arielle...

How are these replies relevant to the Gary Taubes article?
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 11:01
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Never said they were. Just replying to what's been said on the thread.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 11:44
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 19,177
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:

Perhaps just getting EVERYONE to improve their diets will benefit us all ( ie medical costs) rather than be overly concerned about the LDL as if it was the only health criteria.


...........................................

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Thu, Sep-06-18 at 12:54.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 12:44
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Showing that a gene that raises cholesterol is a cause of heart disease is evidence that that raised cholesterol is a suspect, but few if any causes have a single effect, changing a gene that changes ldl levels is no exception. Does familial hypercholesterolemia result in a higher particle count? Change particle size? If decreased clearance of ldl cholesterol by the liver or other organs is involved--is there some related ldl-receptor signallling that's corrupted? This may have the advantages of better randomization etc., but the variable that's being isolated isn't homocysteine or ldl cholesterol, it's the particular genetic variations. Maybe a higher probability of a generated hypothesis bearing fruit than with epidemiology, but I don't think this replaces clinical trials.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 14:27
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I cant find my way to eleminating the microwave; but prefer to not let sons fire up the grill too often as charded food is more than suspect.


Herbivores which are grass fed make their own conjugated linoleic acid to counter charred meat problems. When grilled. And CLA is very good for us.

It was a fine system until we started messing with it.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 14:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreCat50
Werebear, teaser, Ms Arielle...

How are these replies relevant to the Gary Taubes article?


Oh, you want us to stay on subject? You nut!

It is an intriguing concept and far better than food questionaires. For instance, I got sick on a vegetarian diet: turns out, according to my probable ancestral diet, I don’t have the enzymes to get enough protein from animal sources. Which explains why I can do whey smoothies but not pea protein smoothies.

So it can have some utility by at least showing the range of human adaptation. Ask an Inuit to live like a Kitavan, and there will be trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Thu, Sep-06-18, 21:31
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I got sick on a vegetarian diet: turns out, according to my probable ancestral diet, I don’t have the enzymes to get enough protein from animal sources. Which explains why I can do whey smoothies but not pea protein smoothies.
Did you mean non animal sources? I use whey often because age affects your ability to digest or utilize meat sources of protein.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Fri, Sep-07-18, 06:45
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Did you mean non animal sources? I use whey often because age affects your ability to digest or utilize meat sources of protein.


YES, sorry. Vegetable sources of protein = cannot digest very well and I don't get much protein from them. And this was a vegetarian diet, with cheese and eggs.

But of course, no one eats a vegan diet. A cardiologist podcast I put on the forum had a 20 year vegan revealing that all the big names who push this: they all cheat. She did not, and got very sick.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=481155
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Fri, Sep-07-18, 06:51
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,606
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
even C reactive protein, a measure of the inflammatory process that got considerable media attention as a potential cause of heart disease and now, also, seems to be no more than an association.


And yet, my own studies indicate that inflammation is enormously important in this process. The entire "metabolic syndrome" is the story of inflammation; higher than it should be, handled wrong by the body, defense mechanisms against it being the source of long-term damage.

Why aren't we all checking our CRP? Is it because they don't have a drug which will lower it for tons-o-money?

In my own case, my health stress over produced cortisol, and that led to inflammation issues. Treating the inflammation led to recovery: the return of sleep, better appetite and energy, even better moods.

They keep looking in the wrong places for the wrong things.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:13.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.