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  #1   ^
Old Sun, May-02-10, 23:20
CMCM's Avatar
CMCM CMCM is offline
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Posts: 4,264
 
Plan: Keto / Atkins VLC
Stats: 173/148.6/135 Female 5'6"
BF:23.9
Progress: 64%
Location: N. Calif. Sierra Nevadas
Default HIIT Cardio vs. Slower cardio

Is there any consensus about which type of cardio (if any) is useful for fat loss? I just picked up Primal Blueprint, and Sisson advocates slower cardio in the range of 55-75% max most of the time, with maybe one day of something using springs (hi-intensity something or other).

I thought the slow state cardio had pretty much been dismissed as useful...

I'm doing Atkins, keeping carbs under 20 and I actually do best with more like 10-15. I'm pretty well adjusted to the low carb level and have plenty of energy for exercise...my goal is 3x week with heavy weights, I ski a lot, bike, and the final question is what to do about cardio to accelerate fat loss (it's going slooowww). I don't know whether to stick to the HIIT I've been doing lately, or to incorporate some of the slow stuff, or whether I should eliminate cardio completely as some people seem to think.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, May-03-10, 06:04
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joel381 joel381 is offline
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Posts: 1,022
 
Plan: Keto IF
Stats: 275/242.8/192 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 39%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
I thought the slow state cardio had pretty much been dismissed as useful...
It does require a lot of time...

This article maybe of interest on this topic:Link IMO slow state is all one can really tolerate if much out of shape. I am still trying to get in shape so I could do HIIT without hurting myself.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, May-03-10, 22:40
CMCM's Avatar
CMCM CMCM is offline
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Posts: 4,264
 
Plan: Keto / Atkins VLC
Stats: 173/148.6/135 Female 5'6"
BF:23.9
Progress: 64%
Location: N. Calif. Sierra Nevadas
Default

Excellent article. I have loads of respect for Tom Venuto, he really does a good job of separating the garbage from the truth.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-04-10, 11:34
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mattie o mattie o is offline
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Posts: 681
 
Plan: low carb, carb cycling
Stats: 160/121/125 Female 65.5 inches
BF:under 10
Progress: 111%
Location: Longview, WA
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i have found that lower intensity cardio for longer is great for fat loss, especially if done in the morning on an empty stomach.

thats just me personally. i lost 21 lbs of body fat in 13 weeks doing low intensity cardio as a tool.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, May-11-10, 22:48
CMCM's Avatar
CMCM CMCM is offline
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Posts: 4,264
 
Plan: Keto / Atkins VLC
Stats: 173/148.6/135 Female 5'6"
BF:23.9
Progress: 64%
Location: N. Calif. Sierra Nevadas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattie o
i have found that lower intensity cardio for longer is great for fat loss, especially if done in the morning on an empty stomach.

thats just me personally. i lost 21 lbs of body fat in 13 weeks doing low intensity cardio as a tool.


What was your cardio schedule like? Every day? How long per session?
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, May-12-10, 08:34
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mattie o mattie o is offline
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Posts: 681
 
Plan: low carb, carb cycling
Stats: 160/121/125 Female 65.5 inches
BF:under 10
Progress: 111%
Location: Longview, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCM
What was your cardio schedule like? Every day? How long per session?


One hour per day, every day I try and do it in an empty stomach in the morning, if I can...
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, May-18-10, 20:38
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Groovegirl Groovegirl is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 171/151/143 Female 68 inches
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Progress: 71%
Location: Grove City, Ohio
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When you really want to lean out, HIIT is a good way to do it. You burn because it activates the Kreb's cycle to burn carbs. For me it helps to get back into ketosis if I'm slipping out or ate something that messed things up.

When I was hard core training, I'd do HIIT 3 days per week and 1 day of slow burn cardio.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, May-19-10, 14:48
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kbfunTH kbfunTH is offline
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Plan: UDS
Stats: 199/190/190 Male 69
BF:12%/11%/6%
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Location: Pflugerville, TX
Default

and then you have this approach, ala Charles Poliquin.

Training

High intensity interval training burns more calories overall than long slow cardio. The bulk of these calories are burned post exercise. Intervals should consist of 40 sec – 2 min on, and 1 minute off. These sessions should last a max of 42 minutes total including warm-up. The bad news is that the workouts must be very intense, as the subject must get to nausea in order to produce enough lactic acid. Luckily 2 sessions per week is all that is needed to lose fat at a noticeable rate. The catch is that velocity without resistance is useless, so going really fast is not the answer. Working really hard against resistance is the solution.

Continuous aerobic work (long jogs) raises cortisol, which in turn makes you fatter in the long run. So don’t bother doing it unless it is sport specific training.

For strength training, vary the program every 25 days; everything works, but only for a short time. Vary the exercises often so you overload the muscles at different points. You must surprise the muscles with something new in order to force it to adapt. Other possible changes include rest time, muscle grouping, tempo, etc.


Diet

Approximately 75% of people are carb intolerant and should not be eating grains; the grains are getting people fat. The first step is to get the Omega 3’s in balance by taking hi-quality fish oils. You must eat protein with every meal even breakfast. A meat and nut breakfast will make you leaner even if you do not change the rest of your diet. It is best if you rotate the meat each breakfast. Eat 6-7 meals per day with protein plus smart fats in every meal.

A long-term low carbohydrate diet is the solution for fat people even after they have lost the fat. To begin the diet, eat only meat, fish, eggs, cheese and vegetables (50g of carbs per day or less). Follow this diet for 14 days then have a cheat day, eat whatever you want for the entire day. Return to the ultra low carb diet and have a cheat meal (one sitting) every 4th or 5th day.

1. Once you are starting to lean out you can add berries to the diet. They are strong antioxidants and low glycemic.

2. As you get leaner still you can introduce the Orange family of fruits.

3. As you get leaner again you can add Plums, nectarines, peaches and apples.

4. Then grapes and bananas

5. Then the root vegetables such as yams, and sweet potatoes

6. Then rice, the darker the better

7. The last food to add is grains, and it should never be added for those that are carb intolerant. (If eating carbs made you fat)

A no or low gluten diet is a good thing, it interferes with reaction time.

Stick with this diet 80% of the time and you will do fine and not stressed out by it. Eat more vegetables.

Do not eat Peanut Butter, even the natural kind; it contains a mould that has phyto-estrogens in it.

Fructose syrup is the most fattening food we know of and it ages you; avoid it at all costs.

Have your cheat meal late in the day instead of early when you are likely to keep eating bad the rest of the day. The best cheat meals have some nutritional value

Fatty foods have a reputation for causing bad health but it is Carbs that raise cholesterol and bad blood lipids
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, May-23-10, 15:51
Sparklxx Sparklxx is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/159/135 Female 5'10
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Progress: 37%
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Thanks for the info KbfunTH! That was very informative.

Personally, I do either one depending on the day and my mood.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, May-26-10, 07:49
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Seasons Seasons is offline
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Plan: tkd/ckd/paleo hybrid
Stats: 185/183/178 Male 68"
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Progress: 29%
Location: Massachusetts
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HIIT hands down.

i agree with Groovegirl's method of doing HIIT 2-3 days a week and longer "typical" cardio once a week.

awesome post kbfunTH!
i prefer to only cheat once a month, but i cheat-CHEAT.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-09-10, 14:56
Physio5 Physio5 is offline
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Plan: South beach
Stats: 188/188/178 Male 185 cm
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kbfunTH - I have to correct you on a few things

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfunTH
Continuous aerobic work (long jogs) raises cortisol, which in turn makes you fatter in the long run. So don’t bother doing it unless it is sport specific training.

That is highly unlikely. Cortisol will go up if you are seriously energy depraved, but running within reasonable limits will not have that effect. Even if you did very long runs and cortisol went up, it would not make you fat.

Quote:
Approximately 75% of people are carb intolerant and should not be eating grains; the grains are getting people fat.
Carbs might make you fat, but to claim that 75 of people are carb intolerant is unsubstantiated.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-09-10, 15:37
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Seejay Seejay is offline
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Plan: Optimal Diet
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 62 inches
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Progress: 8%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMCM
Sisson advocates slower cardio in the range of 55-75% max most of the time ... I thought the slow state cardio had pretty much been dismissed as useful...
Depends on "useful for what?" Have you seen Sisson's article, Health Benefits of Moderate Exercise?
Higher intensity cardio burns more calories. For calorie believers, that means it's more useful.
Higher intensity cardio helps one adapt better to, well, higher intensity exertion. For some athletes, that means it's more useful.

But to me, the more calories burned include more glucose - ho hum, no thanks.
Also not an endurance athlete, no thanks.

Quote:
I'm doing Atkins, keeping carbs under 20 and I actually do best with more like 10-15. I'm pretty well adjusted to the low carb level and have plenty of energy for exercise...my goal is 3x week with heavy weights, I ski a lot, bike, and the final question is what to do about cardio to accelerate fat loss (it's going slooowww). I don't know whether to stick to the HIIT I've been doing lately, or to incorporate some of the slow stuff, or whether I should eliminate cardio completely as some people seem to think.
I also have a goal of just 130 pounds which means maybe you're a shorter person, like me, I'm guessing? When I add more low intensity, my fat loss goes better, and here's why I think it happens:

Heavy weights, skiing, and hard biking all have a substantial glucose-burning component. That means glucose-burning system has to be "on". In your case you're not getting the glucose from dietary carbs but from gluconeogenesis from dietary protein.

When I add more low intensity, then my sugar-burning system can go quiet and my fat-burning system can be more "on" more of the time.

Of course they are both present at the same time but one is more engaged.

I think of it like special teams in football. All the teams are in the stadium and suited up all the time but only one team at a time is on the gridiron actually playing with the ball.

Course I am not a big fan of counting calories burned. It's stored fat I want to burn. from Busting the Great Myths of Fat Burning on Dummies.com

Quote:
Put another way, if burning as many calories as you can is the best way to lose weight, even a dummy can figure out which activity of the following is going to give the best results (answer: jogging and sprinting), even though their fat-burning quota is on the low end of the ratio.

Code:
Activity..........................Calories Burned.... Fat Percent..Cals from Fat Watching TV for 20 minutes......... 40 calories..... 60 percent...24 calories Walking for 20 minutes.............. 100 calories..... 65 percent...65 calories Jogging & sprinting for 20 minutes.. 250 calories.... 40 percent.. 100 calories

So um - in return for jogging and sprinting for 20 minutes, the most unpleasant 20 minutes - I burn 35 more fat calories over walking? No thank you. But then I don't enjoy it.

Last edited by Seejay : Thu, Sep-09-10 at 15:55.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jan-17-11, 13:07
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mollemcg mollemcg is offline
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Posts: 128
 
Plan: Primal Atkins
Stats: 191.4/187/140 Female 68in
BF:More than I need
Progress: 9%
Location: Asheville, NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seejay
So um - in return for jogging and sprinting for 20 minutes, the most unpleasant 20 minutes - I burn 35 more fat calories over walking? No thank you. But then I don't enjoy it.


Great post. Your comment brings up such a good point - a lot of this comes down to what you like and therefore, what you'll do 5 days a week. My Mom loves to walk and she's always telling me to go for a walk. I HATE walking (unless I'm actually going somewhere). But walking for exercise? Can't stand it. I've seen all the studies that show that walking is just as good as jogging for general good health and that makes me happy for my Mom and all the other walkers out there.

But give me some good jogging & sprinting that leaves me sweaty and gasping at the end and I'm in. Each to his/her own.

BTW - I've had good luck losing weight doing intervals at high intensity (not strict HIIT). I've found that for me what I eat has much more impact on my weight than my specific choice for exercise. The only time I notice exercise having a big impact is when I don't do any at all.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Mar-22-11, 19:33
Bck2LowCrb Bck2LowCrb is offline
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Plan: Atkins/South Beach/My own
Stats: 225/137/130 Female 64
BF:23.2%
Progress: 93%
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Bumping this thread back up I do both , HIIT twice a week and slower paced other times--mixture is working WELL!
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-11, 11:54
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SkyeFWP SkyeFWP is offline
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Plan: PMSF/Keto
Stats: 190/148/170 Male 5"9
BF:10%
Progress: 210%
Location: London, UK
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High Intensity cardio on low carbs is a recipe for disastr IMO.

I prefer Low intensity for longer when low carbing.
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