Ah, thanks for the tip about the fat and great to hear you're all losing - I'm kind of half scared I'm going to gain 10lbs! But I can see why you love this plan.

I bought some almond flour today & am going to see what I can create with some egg yolks, splenda.

Fat can be lower than 2x the protein.
Kwasniewski publishes several different ratios.
For weight loss, it can go as low as 1.5x the protein.
Also, don't force-feed. If you're not hungry, you don't have to eat.

My advice to you is to experiment.

Yes definatly dont force feed. Dr. K advises against that.

Really, I just try to get my 85g protein, 50g carbs and then eat fat until i dont feel hungry. This usually works out to about 200 grams per day.

Mostly I dont really get hungry. More like Im feeling low energy and I need fuel. Kinda weird.

I like this plan. Keto breath gone, don't feel hungry and I'm losing - official weighing day is tomorrow, but I'm down 2lbs (or 3 possibly, because my weight was fluctuating upwards on atkins)

Am not sure how many carbs or calories I'm actually eating but I know carbs are fairly low. Have had some glasses of red wine too - what does Dr K say about wine, ?

I can't find his books on amazon (in English) but am going to try to find a source.

I would have to go look at the book, but off the top of my head - something about, Optimal eaters don't drink much. Maybe half a glass with dinner. After the change to this kind of nutrition, the effects of alcohol change anyway - slower to get high,not so much of a buzz for me anyway. Not worth it even. but I never did like wine. Lost my taste for beer. To me it feels like the good fat and protein crowds out all whatever it was that made me like alcohol, and now it's gone.

So... I'm experimenting and down a pound in 4 days yippee!!

Cannot believe this crazy diet not only stops me from gaining weight but is actually letting me lose and, all the while I am eating cheese, cream, butter...

I'm staying away from potatoes and my carbs are a bit lower than the ratio - but, then I'm not counting the carbs in cream or cheese, so figure that may push the number up slightly.

Why I think this works for me, is the reduction in protein - I notice when I eat chicken breast for lunch, for example, I feel kind of similar to how I feel after a carb lunch of pasta (it sits heavily in my stomach)

I've read a lot more on the LCHF rationale too (the Scandanavian Diet) and it is all beginning to make sense to me. I don't crave anything high carb either - in fact, I have very few cravings at all. Just enjoyment from good, tasty food.

There is a thread on the sub forum, other plans, over at LCF that has a ton of info re this diet.
Start at the beginning for a fairly thorough explanation and some links.

Ok y'all are making want to try this. I think I've been eating too much protein, which is making crave carb's which I used not have an issue with. I need to get this fat moving! I'm stalled with a few more inches of fat to lose or about 20something lbs.

Wine on occasion wont hurt. Wouldnt have more than a drink a day, and not everyday either.

I truly think that as long as the Max carbs and protein. Have been eaten, any amount of fat that allows weight loss is acceptable. I can eat up to 300g fat per day and not gain. But if I wanna drop a few lbs I go to about 160ish grams per day.

This diet is near impossible for me without dairy fats. Cream, cream cheese, butter, mascarpone, half and half, etc. Even the fattiest meats don't cut it. Egg yolk recipes are a must as well. Some of the other trainers in my gym have super high protein diets and we swap yolks for whites. Very convenient.

I would also recommend not having ANY artificial sweeteners. I notice very quickly how hungry I get after drinking a diet coke. And it lasts for at least an hour. Just my experience anyway.

Yes. The formula should look like this:

Protein requirements are your height in cm minus 100.
I'm 5feet 11in tall, that's roughly 180 cm. So subtract 100 and I get 80. That's plus or minus 10%. So between 72g and 88g of protein per day.

Next is carbs. The range of carbs should be .5 to .8 g per gram of protein. For me this is 40-64g carbs per day.

Last is fat. This is easy. Multiply your protein intake by 1.5 for weight loss. You can multiply by 3.5 to get maintenance level. So I need about 120-300g fat per day. The lower end represents fat loss, the higher end for maintenance.

Ratios are protein 1: fats 1.5: carbs .5 for fat loss. Maintenance levels are protein 1: fats 3.5: carbs .8

That protein is based on height in cm minus 100.

Well that carb ratio is completely different than the one in the post quoted is in not?

I think you got a lot of carbs because in the spreadsheet, there is no value for the person's stature.
(height in centimeters-100)

So in the spreadsheet, for protein, it shows 79 grams as a minimum. That would work for a person 91 inches tall (231 cm tall - 100 times .6)

Just to clarify what ratios we're talking about -

the ratios in the post you quoted, were

0.6-0.8P : 2F : 0.8-1.5C for the long term and that the ratios 1P : 2.5-3.5F : 0.5C should be used only over the introductory phase of the OD and not maintained beyond that.

The ratios from Jordan were

Fat loss protein 1: fats 1.5: carbs .5 for fat loss.
Maintenance levels are protein 1: fats 3.5: carbs .8

I don't see those two as completely different. Jordan didn't include ranges but the other one did, and Jordan's values are in the range of the other.

All the low carb plans have ranges as I recall, at least the ones I have read. A plan that was so specific that it did not account for ranges, but instead gave absolute numbers, might not work any better. i bet that's why every plan has ranges come to think of it. Even my old days in WW with their half cups of number 4 vegetables, anyone remember that? They had ranges for protein.

The only things I've read of Kwasniewski's are the 2 books in English. From that information, the ratios quoted are for long-term maintenance, PJ. He writes that after very well adjusted to the OD, protein needs decrease below the "height in cm - 100" number, to around 0.8 times that amount.

But he's also not dogmatic about the numbers, and views them as guidelines only. An athlete or some with a job that has lots of hard labor will require more protein, whereas a short petite person who doesn't exercise will require less.

He also writes that it depends on appetite, as well. The short petite person might be very well adjusted to the OD, yet have a somewhat larger appetite for protein, putting him/her above the 0.8 ratio.

The ratios quoted in the 2 english books depend on the purpose for doing OD. For weight loss, the most austere ratios are 1:1.5:0.3 (protein:fat:carb) with protein based on height as described above. For weight maintenance but other health problems, or health maintenance, the books' ratios range from 0.8-1:2-4.5:0.5-1.

Take this information along with that translation from the Polish, and you can see how fluid his ratios are---really it is a plan each individual must tailor to their own unique health statuses.

Thanks -- kinda comes down to "figure out what works for you" -- which is hardly an eating plan -- LOL.

PJ

Thanks, reading the quote alone, I didn't realize that the height of the person was related to the numbers. It was only something on the fly out of curiosity.

PJ