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  #1   ^
Old Mon, May-11-09, 08:12
BoulderJD BoulderJD is offline
New Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: Atkins, New Atkins
Stats: 279/251/200 Male 73 inches
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Default Atkins to Vegan to ????

I really enjoyed reading the "180" thread. I can relate. I'm in my fifties and I've tried nearly every diet and eating program known. In my 20s and 30s I was vegetarian and very healthy. In my 40s I worked long hours in Y2K projects and started eating the food they brought in for us (pizza, doughnuts, BBQ). My weight ballooned and I developed heart disease and diabetes. In the last few years I've tried low-carbing to battle the diabetes, and it works really well, but like a lot of you I detest the idea of eating the flesh of a living, breathing animal. I tried McDougall and Esselstyn (both vegan) for a while, but my blood sugars were way out of control with all the potatoes, cereals and breads. After a pretty good re-start on LC last spring, I'm now back to square one. My A1C is over 9...again. My endocrinologist has told me I have to restrict carbs or run the risk of severe complications with diabetes. I am considering a protein source of organic eggs and cottage cheese. What do you guys think?

Thanks, John

Last edited by BoulderJD : Mon, May-11-09 at 08:24.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, May-11-09, 08:24
soapluvr soapluvr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 404
 
Plan: As low as possible
Stats: 116/116/112 Female 64
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Houston
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Seriously...........I don't know what to tell you. I have a friend in the same boat almost. She's not diabetic she will be in five years if she keeps going the same way she's going. She did atkins for about a year and lost 40 pounds and looked great. She did it by eating only dairy and shrimp as her protein source. She dropped off the wagon and has gained it all back and MORE.

If you really have that hard of a time eating flesh food and it is compromising your health I would suggest hypnosis. Of course if you health was deteriorating it wouldnt be necessary but you have to do something. I don't know if hypnosis would work. But it's worth at try.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-12-09, 14:07
BoulderJD BoulderJD is offline
New Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: Atkins, New Atkins
Stats: 279/251/200 Male 73 inches
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapluvr
Seriously...........I don't know what to tell you. I have a friend in the same boat almost. She's not diabetic she will be in five years if she keeps going the same way she's going. She did atkins for about a year and lost 40 pounds and looked great. She did it by eating only dairy and shrimp as her protein source. She dropped off the wagon and has gained it all back and MORE.

If you really have that hard of a time eating flesh food and it is compromising your health I would suggest hypnosis. Of course if you health was deteriorating it wouldnt be necessary but you have to do something. I don't know if hypnosis would work. But it's worth at try.


Well, I've never thought of hypnosis, Becky, but it might be worth a try.

I just got back from my "new" doctor here in New Mexico. He is from the old AMA school with regards to prescribing medicine on top of medicine. He likes Atkins for diet and diabetes, but he also wants me to add 40-80mg of Lipitor to combat the high fat of a LC diet, Zetia, Avandia to my pill list.

It's never ending.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 04:25
soapluvr soapluvr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 404
 
Plan: As low as possible
Stats: 116/116/112 Female 64
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Houston
Default

Well.........again I'm not trying to scare you but do plenty of research before you go on a statin drug. I would worry more about the blood sugar problem than I would the cholesterol as far as health and longevity go. I truly do put no faith in doctors. If I listened to my doctor I'd be on about three or four drugs right now and I'm only 55. I heard on the news the other day that MOST americans over the age of 65 take at least three different kinds of drugs and as they get older it gets worse. I know this is true with my parents in their 80's.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 05:47
Anniriki's Avatar
Anniriki Anniriki is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 250/245/175 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Minnesota
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John, I can certainly identify with your problem. I did McDougall for years, not strictly, I had oil and meat occasionally, but for the most part all I ate was oats, rice, beans, bread, cereal, veggies and fruit. After many years of a semi-vegan diet I developed blood sugar problems and finally hypoglycemia, which would have led to diabetes if I didn't make some changes. It was difficult to accept that I needed to start eating animal protein, and for a long time I was scared it would lead straight to a heart attack. I still worry about that, but I feel so much better on a low carb and I do think this WOE is best for some people, just as a vegetarian diet is best for others. I admire McDougall, Esselstyn and Ornish for what they are doing to help people get well, but if you read on McDougall's forum, many of his followers are still struggling with severe health issues. Not all of them have the great success promised by these doctors when following a strict plant based diet.

Becky, I totally agree with you about medication and I think hypnosis is a great idea!
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, May-13-09, 06:59
HiDelight HiDelight is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 422
 
Plan: Atkins maint
Stats: 200/125/125 Female 5'3
BF:not fat anymore!
Progress: 100%
Location: In my garden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapluvr
Well.........again I'm not trying to scare you but do plenty of research before you go on a statin drug. I would worry more about the blood sugar problem than I would the cholesterol as far as health and longevity go. I truly do put no faith in doctors. If I listened to my doctor I'd be on about three or four drugs right now and I'm only 55. I heard on the news the other day that MOST americans over the age of 65 take at least three different kinds of drugs and as they get older it gets worse. I know this is true with my parents in their 80's.


I am certainly not an advocate of taking tons of pills but the fact your parents are in their "80's" speaks loudly for healthcare in the US as flawed as it is ..people live a long long time here

anyway being vegan is HARD!!! I have tried it you never feel quite right and your life is very restricted

you could be a very low carb vegetarian however and eat lots of good fats and proteins that were not alive ..start on the dairy rung of Atkins or try South Beach both of them are veg friendly and can help get your blood sugars in order..there are several great diets for people who do not eat meat
The Shwartzbien Principle ..I read that years ago and it was great for diabetics and can be modified for someone who eats no meat

I was a vegetarian for a very long time and it did not work for me... for me the world is about variety and I feel my best if I eat from a wide variety of healthy food ...

good luck in your journey!
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, May-14-09, 06:47
BoulderJD BoulderJD is offline
New Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: Atkins, New Atkins
Stats: 279/251/200 Male 73 inches
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anniriki
John, I can certainly identify with your problem. I did McDougall for years, not strictly, I had oil and meat occasionally, but for the most part all I ate was oats, rice, beans, bread, cereal, veggies and fruit. After many years of a semi-vegan diet I developed blood sugar problems and finally hypoglycemia, which would have led to diabetes if I didn't make some changes. It was difficult to accept that I needed to start eating animal protein, and for a long time I was scared it would lead straight to a heart attack. I still worry about that, but I feel so much better on a low carb and I do think this WOE is best for some people, just as a vegetarian diet is best for others. I admire McDougall, Esselstyn and Ornish for what they are doing to help people get well, but if you read on McDougall's forum, many of his followers are still struggling with severe health issues. Not all of them have the great success promised by these doctors when following a strict plant based diet.

Becky, I totally agree with you about medication and I think hypnosis is a great idea!


I do admire those doctors who promote a plant based diet for health and well-being as well, Anninki. Another thing I admire is that they all seem to promote taking control of your own health prescription, that YOU are the expert of your own body. The one thing I've learned through the years is that doctors are not gods, they just took different courses in college than I did. And, if I have trouble remembering what I learned 30 years ago, I'm sure they have the same problem which is why they seem to rely in mass on the drug salespeople who frequent their offices daily with free samples, free pens, free pads and who knows what else. I couldn't help but notice that the doctor who wanted to put me on 40-80mg Lipitor had Lipitor items through his exam room. And the fact that the doctor was my age, on statins for five years since a major heart attack, was more overweight than me was not helpful.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, May-14-09, 06:55
BoulderJD BoulderJD is offline
New Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: Atkins, New Atkins
Stats: 279/251/200 Male 73 inches
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapluvr
Well.........again I'm not trying to scare you but do plenty of research before you go on a statin drug. I would worry more about the blood sugar problem than I would the cholesterol as far as health and longevity go. I truly do put no faith in doctors. If I listened to my doctor I'd be on about three or four drugs right now and I'm only 55. I heard on the news the other day that MOST americans over the age of 65 take at least three different kinds of drugs and as they get older it gets worse. I know this is true with my parents in their 80's.


Thanks, Becky, I do intend to do a lot of research before popping more pills. I read an interesting article once about the benefits of a statin drug. It said something like the greatest benefit you could derive was an 18% reduction in cholesterol per mega mg block of medication or you could receive the same benefit through diet without the side effects. I'll have to go back and find that article.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, May-14-09, 07:22
Anniriki's Avatar
Anniriki Anniriki is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 55
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 250/245/175 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Minnesota
Default

One thing I can say in defense of a plant based diet is that my blood pressure went down to normal when I was on a vegan diet and then it went back up when I began eating animal protein again. The problem for me on a vegan diet is that I am constantly hungry, I get light headed, and I can't lose an ounce of weight no matter how strictly I follow their plan for weight loss.

John, have you read Dr. Neal Barnard's Program for Reversing Diabetes? It might give you some insights on how to fight your diabetes on a vegetarian diet. Also, as HiDelight said, The Schwartzbein Principle has a chapter on how to eat low carb on a vegetarian diet. She is an endocrinologist from Southern CA and has helped many former vegetarians overcome their diabetes on a low carb diet.

Doctors have many differing opinions about what is the best diet for diabetics. The hard part is deciding which one to follow.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, May-14-09, 09:56
Robin120's Avatar
Robin120 Robin120 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,140
 
Plan: low carb
Stats: 171/125/145 Female 5'9
BF:
Progress: 177%
Location: DC
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I am sorry to hear about your A1C. I was vegan for 4 years, but am now a pescatarian. Following a low carb diet has helped me get my A1C from about 8 to 6! It rocks!

You can definitely low carb as a vegetarian, but vegan might be hard. I also buy organic/free range dairy/eggs. I'll post some vegan ideas for low carbing, and if you want some with eggs or dairy, let me know and I'll add.

Beware of excessive protein- it really spikes your blood sugar. A high fat diet will not.

Meals and snacks for a low carb vegan:

1. Celery with all natural peanut butter
2. Crudites with baba gnouish
3. bell peppers with tofu spinach dip
4. Spaghetti squash with pesto sauce or olive oil/fresh herbs/ nutrional yeast or vegan "parmesean"
5. Baked and marinated tofu
6. tofu/veggy stirfry (make sure to add lots of oil to get enough fat)
7. tofu scramble
8. eggless "egg salad" (mash tofu with soy mayo, dill relish, salt and pepper)
9. Smoothies made with protein powder/ tofu/berries/ sweetner of choice/nut butter/cocoa powder....
10. nuts!
11. Veggies and guacomole
12. salads with avocado, olives, veggies, nuts, seeds, etc...
13. tofurkey kielbasa is sooo good!
14. Iced coffee with almond milk
15. olives and marinated artichoke hearts for snacking
16. you can make "oatmeal" type cereals using flaxmeal or tvp
17. Chilli made with tvp/ black soy beans are low carb!
18. a veggy burger in a lettuce wrap


Obviously, this list is "soy heavy" so if soy is a concern it might be harder for you... quorn is a great alternative though!

Let me know if you want some dairy/egg ideas... it really makes it much easier, but I defintiely appreciate your concerns for those animals' welfare.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, May-14-09, 11:23
brpssm's Avatar
brpssm brpssm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,590
 
Plan: was Atkins now PāNu
Stats: 292.5/195/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Canada
Default

If you can do vegetarian and not vegan (meaning that you still eat dairy products and maybe eggs) you can still go low carb and have all the benefits.

For sure you cannot eat Induction level carbs and stick to a vegetarian diet, but you could certainly eat like you are in OWL or Maintenance, and it will still be healthier than a high-carb/low-fat regime, IMO.

Non-flesh sources of protein that work for me (I only eat chicken and only every second day) are:
almonds
natural peanut butter
tofu
sour cream
heavy cream
cheeses of all kinds -- hard, soft, cream
eggs, eggs and more eggs
chickpeas
blackbeans/turtlebeans

Also, to supplement grains, I use things like dreamfield's pasta and low-carb wraps (sparingly).....it is easier to eat vegetarian Atkins this way, but it can have it's consequences (some people can't handle the low-carb products).

It really depends on what your goals and priorities are. If you are willing to sacrifice faster weight loss to not consume meat, then I think a low-carb Atkins that uses the higher-rungs of the carb ladder works best. It will be slower going, but you can still reap the health benefits and weight loss over time.

If you want to go full-on vegan, however, it is very difficult to stick to a low-carb plan, since all the protein options left to you are high-carb and usually low-fat.

In DANDR there is a blurb about vegetarian Atkins, it is worth a look.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, May-15-09, 01:51
Yuna's Avatar
Yuna Yuna is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: LC Vegetarian
Stats: 176/171.6/120 Female 168 cm
BF:
Progress: 8%
Location: Belgium
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Being new to lc myself, I found the 'Vegetarian Low-Carb Diet' (book & cookbook) very helpfull: it contains meal plans for the first fase (20g of carbo), but allows a bit more variation then Atkins (nuts, etc)
It helped me through the first 2 weeks

grz,

Yuna
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, May-16-09, 08:23
BoulderJD BoulderJD is offline
New Member
Posts: 20
 
Plan: Atkins, New Atkins
Stats: 279/251/200 Male 73 inches
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Default

Thank you all for the suggestions. I did find the book "Low Carb Vegetarian" online. I should have it next week.

I just got an update from the labs taken last week. Last October after nearly a year on McDougall's program, my total Chol was 145, A1c was 9.1. After bouts of low carbing the past few months, my new A1c is 6.5, but my total Chol is 225, LDL 138, HDL 35, Trig 257. I know the doctor will start talking statins on my next visit.

I appreciate the posts of support and suggestions!

John
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