I was using gymnema sylvestre and a chinese herb with the Chinese name of Mai Wei Di Huang Wan and my blood sugar was well under control, with a daily average blood glucose of about 98 to 102.

A couple of months ago, I had a bout of diarrhea and my fiancee, an Herbal Medicine Doctor, put me on a Chinese her to cure that... The English name of that herb is "berberine hydrochloride". I noticed after 2 or 3 days of taking it for the diarrhea, my blood glucose was dropping down to the low 70s'.

We had a long discussion about this and being she is retired, she had forgotten that when she had prescribed it a few years ago to some diabetics who had diarrhea that many had reported a sudden drop in blood glucose averages. She told me it was safe to take at the dose of 500mg twice daily.

So, after controlling the diarrhea, I kept using it for blood glucose control, but it worked so well, I stopped taking the other two herbs I was using to control my blood glucose.

After doing some research of my own, I've learned that in China in the mid 90s' this herb was discovered to help diabetics by accident. Some research has been done, mostly on animals and it turns out it helps reduce blood pressure and cholesterol and it also acts as an appetite suppressant.

I've been on it for a couple of months and I've noticed that it works effectively for me without my taking anything else. It sure has made my life a lot more simple. I had not had spikes or dawn phenomena in a while now. I feel my daily average with just this one herb is about 10 points lower per day then when I was using two other herbal products.

I must add though that part of why I think it is working so well for me is I've already had a significant weight loss and I walk a lot each day. When I say a lot, I mean walks after meals of 30 minutes or longer, walking a lot to get to places locally throughout the day for an average of 4 hours or more daily... I feel that without the walking, I might not be seeing these good results.

Anyone else ever tried Berberine Hydrochloride?

interesting, any information on why it works?

Yes, I believe it increases insulin sensitivity. Not sure how it works. There are some things written about it, but I think this is one of those herbs we'll be hearing more about in the next year or so....... It was marketed for years for the treatment of diarrhea and I think it was in 1995 that it was noticed that it also helped reduce BG levels. After testing began, I believe that is when it was realized it helped with lowering high blood pressure and high cholesterol as well as an appetitie suppressant...

Berberine HCL sounds like something to try.
Has anyone found a source?
Eddie

Eddie, I brought home a suitcase full of it from China, but I've yet to find a source here in the states, but I'm sure it can be found. There is a product available in the USA that has an herbal mix, which contains Berberine. The product is called "Goldenseal".

A 6 month supply of Berberine HCL from China was only $28 usd... Typically, you can expect to find an equivalent product here in the USA for about 6 times the price you'd pay in China. My source was a wholesale herbal medicine market located in Xi'an, China...

There's a Chinese Exporting company in Hong Kong that can export Berberine, so I would presume there must be an American Herbal Supplier that could order and sell it...

Something you want to be VERY careful about is this: A lot of stuff sold by the Chinese as "diabetes herbs" when analyzed in the lab turns out to have cheap sulfonylurea drugs added to it. It will lower blood sugar but that is because of that sulf drug.

However, the cheap sulf drugs cause heart attacks. The ones docs use now are 2nd generation and don't target a heart receptor the old ones did.

If you read Bernstein's book you'll see he is VERY against using sulf drugs. He believes they burn out the pancreas.

So be cautious with this herbal stuff because, sadly, there are a lot of weasels in the world who don't mind hurting people and because you really don't know what is in these herbal preparations you buy.

Well, some people like to talk about things to scare people too, even when they are not sure what they are talking about...

The Berberine Hydrochloride is actually not marketed in China as a diabetic herb... It is marketed as an herb to cure diarrhea and an upset stomach.

By the way... sulfonylurea has the side effects of weight gain and abdominal upset. I first took it to cure my diarrhea and upset stomach, which it did in 24 hours and I was advised to keep taking it for a few days and then I noticed the lowering effect on my blood sugar. Also, after being on it for two months I've lost weight and I don't have any stomach problems.

My thread is about Berberine Hydrochloride and you are introducing a scare about it containing sulfonylurea. Can you give me one reference where you've seen Berberine Hydrochloride possibly containing sulfonylurea?????

I suppose I could have herbal products lab tested, but I do get complete blood work done every 90 days and get an EKG every 90 days and I've got excellent blood work results and my heart is fine.

I thank you for your concern, but IMHO, I think you're being unjustifiably pessimistic.

Of course I can provide cites.

Here is just one:

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues...die/goudie.html

Here is an overview of the problem:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-171540009.html

There are plenty of others. This is a well known problem within the diabetes community.

And here is another article that suggests that the mechanism of some of these Chinese herbal drugs is that of a sulfonylurea:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...f9c3d2594245c41

You are posting in a Dr. Bernstein-related forum, and Bernstein is very clear on his opposition to sulfs.

They work very well, but they have some serious problems besides weight gain, so instead of attacking the messenger, this is something to consider.

Cajunboy - I would have a great deal more confidence in taking ah herbal from China had I a great connection there who was personally able to ensure that he/she was getting what she wanted. Buying from health food stores or over the internet opens up all the possibilities of scams.

Lot of positive info on Internet about berberine-
mainly for GI problems but also for BG control.
Best price I've found is about 20 bucks for sixty
200 mg pills-EXPENSIVE!Probably not for me.
Eddie

What is your typical daily dosage, Cajunboy47?

Edit: Sorry, I now see that you said that in your first post. Thanks for the info.

I am posting in a forum on Diabetes control and Dr Berstein is just part of it... not all of it...

Guess what? I agree with you and Dr Bernstein. I am opposed to the use of Sulf drugs.......

But Jenny, if you thought I attacked the messenger before, get ready to feel attacked again, because I read each of your references and although each refers to Sulf drugs, none showed a link to Berberine Hydrochloride. READ MY LIPS.... Berberine hydrochloride is not sold in China as a diabetic drug. It is sold in China to treat diarrhea. I've read about every dang thing your sulf references infer can happen if taken. I've none of those symptoms, no complications whatsoever. I am fine and I think you are purely wrong to be so concerned.... I may be wrong, but it seems as though you have an anti-herbal phobia.

Seriously, if you feel attacked, I am sorry..... My intention is to pass on good information to others without someone putting up a road block when it is not warrantied.

For the record, I am very much aware that quality control on herbal products out of China is of great concern and there is a big scare going on and I believe as with everything else in life, we should always use caution.

I advocate that when anyone is trying anything to improve health, they should monitor and test as often as possible.

I trust the herbal products I use, based on my results. I distrust western medicines, including those sulf drugs, which I once did use, base on my results with them also...

I hope you find solutions with your problems, just as we're all looking for solutions for ours............

reference site on Berberine Hydrochloride:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/berberine.htm

Highlights from the site:

It has been used in China for treating gastrointestinal diseases with reported success; applications have included acute gastroenteritis, cholera, and bacillary dysentery. So, the first applications of isolated berberine were for treatment of these conditions.

Soon after berberine was prepared as an isolated agent for clinical use, it was noted that berberine had other potential benefits; for example, it appeared to reduce high blood pressure at doses of about 1 gram per day (3). The hypotensive action of berberine has been confirmed in several pharmacology experiments, but follow-up clinical trials have been lacking. Still, this effect of berberine fortunately led to further testing of the compound for patients with cardiovascular disease risk factors, and evidence developed to demonstrate a lowering of cholesterol (and triglycerides) and of blood sugar. These new findings are the main focus of this brief report.

Check out this reference, which was done by the U.S. National Institutes of Health...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/...erine%22&rank=2


According to the research which is now completed, it says that Bererine Hydrochloride is safe and effective in treating, diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure.

It does not mention that it can also be a mild appetite suppressant, but other studies have indicated this and through my use of it, I notice that it does mildly affect appetite. For me, I notice that I can go 6 to 8 hours some days without eating and I don't get hypos or feel hungry...

I've found some websites that sell herbal products that use herbal mixes which include berberine, but I would not buy it. If and when I find a good source for pure berberine hydrochloride, I will post it here.

I get mine directly from a wholesale supplier in China, when I'm in China, but I am still looking for a source to buy from here in the USA....

I take 500mg twice daily. That dose can be safely taken 3 times daily......

funny, but when my cat was diabetic Mai Wei Di Huang Wan helped her blood glucose stabilize.