I just read the following on the CarbSmart Magazine website:

"Now, for fun or horror, (depending on how you look at it), we can calculate how many hidden carbohydrates the person in our above example will get from eating her required amount of protein. Since an average of 58% of the protein can become carbohydrate, we multiply 60 protein grams by 58%. The answer is about 35. Depending on how a person's body uses the protein it needs, as many as 35 extra carbohydrate grams may be available from 60 grams of protein consumed, in addition to the amount of carbohydrates that the person is getting from eating other carbohydrate foods."

I know that I have read discussions about this before, but I have never fully understood what it means and what to do about it.

Another thing I don't understand is why doing a Meat Fast is one of the recommended ways to break a stall. If excess protein only hinders weight loss, why would this help break a stall?

I am currently doing a 2 or 3 day Meat Fast because I haven't lost a pound or an inch in 52 days. Now, I am wondering if I am only hurting my progress. I'm on my last 5-6 pounds and certainly can't afford to make any mistakes at this point.

I tend to eat over 100g of protein a day without even trying. I eat a lot of butter and mayo to keep my fats above 60%, but the protein is almost always above 100g and I am only 5'2", 111 pounds!!! It looks like this is way too much, but I don't know how to change it and still be full. Before starting this WOE I was eating close to 4000 calories a day (at 118-122 pounds), mostly carbs, and not gaining any weight. Now I am eating 1500-2000 calories a day, mostly fat (60-65%) and protein (30-35%), and not losing. I would think that a 2000 calorie deficit from what my body is used to consuming would make weight loss easier than this. That's why I am looking into the protein issue.

It's so confusing because everyone talks about the foods that are known for stalling weight loss. Most of those foods are the ones that a person would add to raise their fat and lower their protein. I'm talking about things like cheese (I assume this includes cream cheese), nuts, cream, bacon, pepperoni, etc. Unfortunately, I don't like avacado, so that isn't an option for me.

I guess my questions are:

If a high fat intake and low protein intake helps weight loss then why do the above foods "stall" so many people?

Why is there such thing as a Meat Fast?

How does one stay full without eating a lot of protein. Fat does nothing to fill me up but a big steak does the trick.

Am I likely stalling because I am eating too much protein on a daily basis?

Thanks for your help!

Hi there Shasta,

At 5'2 and 111lbs, you are at the low end of normal weight.
I strongly suspect that the reason you are no longer losing is that this is the appropriate (and healthy) weight for your body.
Our bodies sometimes know what is best for us.

If I were you, I would forget the Meat Fast (certainly not recommended by Dr Atkins) and continue low carbing, but at maintenance level. Enjoy your steaks, they are doing you no harm whatsoever.

You are not overweight - congratulations!

If you are still unhappy about the shape of your body, how about joining a gym? Have a look at the exercise forums here, for some suggestions.

Rosebud

Shasta, they are talking about the process of gluconeogeneis - the creation of glucose from excess protein. The key being 'excess'. A few things:

• 60g of protein is by no means excessive.
• the process of de novo gluconeogenesis takes place in the absence of insulin, and unless you're very insulin resistant (a la diabetic) it will not cause you any ill effects.
• the process of de novo gluconeogensis is something that is ongoing - it can be happening all the time, depending on how many carbs you're eating (it will happen if you're not eating enough), how often you eat (it wil happen more if you eat fewer meals), how high your metabolism is (higher = more). It is the safeguard that our bodies have to maintain glucose homeostatis. Red blood cells can only use glucose. It's not something to worry about - and it's really not something you can stop, either.
• excessive protein for a 111lb woman would be in the area of 2g per lb of body weight, and even then? maybe not.
• there is no 'meat fast' in DANDR. There is a plan named after Dr. Stillman that involves a lot of protein, little fat and little carbs. These things get bastardized over time - just like the Fat Fast - it's not for everyone, nor is it a fast.

I'd give some serious thought to was Roz has to say. If you're unhappy with your body's tone perhaps some exercise or weight lifting would be a better idea?

Nat

Thank you both for your replies. I knew that the first person that replied with have an issue with my height/weight and think that I am "where I need to be". I just didn't feel like typing out my whole story. LOL!

I have always been 105-107# no matter what or how much I eat. I went on the Pill for ONE MONTH and gained 10#. MY body seemed to reset it's set point to around 118#. My body fat % also went up 5% in that time. When I realized what was going on, I quit the Pill immediately. My doctor was shocked by what happened and assured me that the weight would melt off as soon as I discontinued the Pill. Well, it didn't. That was 3 years ago and I have not gained or lost a pound since then.

I am just trying to lose those 10# now that I am not on the Pill. I started this Atkins at 122# (up a few pounds of water weight from eating a lot of salt the day before) and am now 111# after 64 days. I lost all the weight in the first 10 days, so I think I was carrying a lot of water weight.

I have never had a weight problem and all the clothes in my closet are the same size. Because of where I gained the 10# (all in my thighs), I can't wear any of my pants. I look quite out of proportion now. 10# on the thighs of a short person is pretty noticeable. I gained 3 inches on each thigh! I have been living in overalls since I gained the weight!!!

I am big on exercise, but every form of exercise (cardio, callisthenics, weights, etc.) that I have tried just bulks up my thigh muscles and therefore pushes the fat out further. I need to get rid of the layer of fat.

I think it is automatic for people to tell me that I don't need to lose weight when they haven't seen me. The thing is, it's not all about numbers. Frame size, muscle and fat have a lot to do with it. Believe me, nobody has ever called me skinny.

I just need to figure out what the heck to eat. Reading the book doesn't seem to be enough and there are so many opinions on what works and what doesn't. It's all so confusing.

The problem might be that I eat about 1.0 times my weight in protein every day. I currently weigh 111# and eat at least 100g a day. Sometimes as much as 150g!!!My ratios are still good (see first post) because I eat a lot of fat too. The calories might be my problem also. I am just so hungry. I have been in constant ketosis, but I am literally starving all day long. Even eating 2000 calories, I'm so hungry that my stomach hurts. I don't know what to do. I don't know why ketosis isn't suppressing my appetite.

I used to eat about 4000 (nothing but pizza, cookies, candy and other junk food!)calories a day and not gain. So, I thought that cutting the calories in half to 2000 would make me lose. I keep reading that we need to eat 10-12 times our weight in calories every day to lose weight. For me, that is only 1110-1332 calories a day. I can't imagine living on that. I get hunger headaches on 2000 calories a day! Then, I read that one should never go below 1200-1500 calories. Well 10-12 times my weight is already under those numbers. What's a girl to do?

What would someone even shorter than me (5'2) do? If a 4'10 person's ideal weight was only 90 pounds, they could barely eat!

Anyway, thank you for listening and for any advice you can offer.

shasta, if your body is accustomed to 4000 calories a day and you've cut down to 2000 its very possible that this why you're not losing. At 2000 calories your body thinks its starving. Try eating more. If you're hungry, you're hungry. EAT.

About the 3" on your thighs - building the muscle will at first make them bigger, but the fat will go. You should check out the exercise forum - there are ways of lifting and exercises you can perform that will help you burn more fat as opposed to building more mass (of course you'll probably have to eat more!)

Nat

Unfortunately, I gained the 3" at the same time that I gained the 10#. In one month. I wasn't exercising at the time.

I have noticed that exercise makes them even bigger, though. I still need to figure that out because I definitely need to work that part of my body.

I'm afraid to eat more calories since I am already eating so many for someone my size who is trying to lose weight. At the time that I was eating 4000 calories, I didn't know that I was eating that much. I didn't realize it until I started using fitday and put in the foods and amounts that I used to eat in any given day. It wasn't unusual for me to eat a whole package of oreos and a Super Size bag of Doritos in one day.

I was shocked to see the amount of calories I was eating! I can't believe that I never gained any weight. That's why I am so surprised that I'm not losing now that I am eating correctly. I've also missed two TOMs since changing my eating 64 days ago. I think my body is in shock. It doesn't recognize all the nutrients it is receiving. LOL!

Do you think that I wil always be this hungry or is there something I can do or eat to alleviate the hunger. I want the appetite suppressing affect of ketosis that I hear so much about.

Thanks again for your help, Nat!

Shasta, again, I have to say EAT more. What is the 'correct' number of calories for you and what is the correct number of calories for another 5'2" woman does not have to be the same. There are some people with fast metabolism, some with damaged and very slow ones, and some like you! The fact that you are now feeding your body adequate nutrients and it is not behaving properly (not TOM) is a sign, IMHO, that it is not getting adequate calories.

If, at 4000 calories you did not gain weight and at 2000 you cannot lose weight, there is a problem with the numbers. Let me put it another way: If a 150 lb woman posted that she used to eat 2000 calories a day and she cut down to 1000 a day and was not losing fat and she had not had her TOM for 64 days, what would you advise her to do?

Starvation and Stress for my body happens at around 1800 calories a day - for you it's higher. Your body has not been subjected to low calorie dieting, mine has.

Nat

you offer excellent advice, Nat. Thank you! I will start increasing calories slowly and see what happens. If I don't lose or start gaining, I will try something else.

So, do you think I should worry about excess protein or should I just concentrate on low-carb for the time being?

Thanks again. You are awesome!!!

BTW, you look great in your new signature pic!

I wouldn't worry about excessive protein - it's far easier to increase calories with fat in any event. A little butter here, some whipping cream there.. and voila, 300 more calories, no protein.

Keep us posted, K?

Nat

Thanks again for your advice. I have kept calories even lower (1578 and 1480) for the past two days. I have been starving and irritable, but I wanted to see what would happen. This morning I was down 1.5#. I'm not sure if that is actual weight or if it jis ust because I have a lot less in my stomach than usual. I still drank over 150 ounces of water each day.

I certainly don't want to mess up my metabolism, especially since it seems to be pretty good considering that I am HYPOthyroid. But, I like seeing weight loss for once. I'm not sure what I will do from here. Probably increase calories slowly and see if the 1.5# comes back. If it does then that might mean that I just have to deal with the hunger that comes with keeping my calories low.

Hmmmmm...I was pretty sure about what I was going to do (increase calories to feel full) until I stepped on the scale this morning.