Do any of you follow the Carb Sane Asylum blog? Most all of the posts would be classic war zone candidates. Here's a recent one that caught my eye:
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011...rt-vii-its.html
This is part VII in a series, the others are worth checking out also. She definitely focuses on some of the "personalities" of the low carb world and especially gary Taubes, but this one focuses on Jimmy Moore. Some quotes from this post:
Lots of other posts too on the other side of low carb. Try this search http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/search?q=haes to see the whole series, including:
- The Death of Critical Thinking in the LLVLC World
- Is LC Morphing to HAES? Part III: Why so many "Heavy" Low Carbers

What is HAES?

it took me a while to figure out also, but apparently it means: "Health At Every Size"

I've been following her blog. I don't agree with everything she says but she has brought up some good points about Jimmy not being more open and forthright about his weight struggles, especially considering he positions himself as an expert and an adviser on low carb. There is also the matter of Carb-Sane being booted from his forum when she asked questions he didn't want to answer. If your weight loss plan is that good, then questions about your progress (or lack thereof) or a disagreement about some aspect of it shouldn't phase you. You should welcome discussions if done tactfully.

Eh. Not untrue. But...

Jimmy is a valuable resource in the field. What he is personally is a separate topic from what he provides as a 'centralized media-promoting resource for nutrition information', IMO. Since it's one person, for him obviously it's impossible to separate the two. His personal vestment in this is much of what brought him to what he does and keeps him in it. But I look at his primary value as the really terrific range of information he's provided from not only tons of medical and nutrition people, but the collections of links, his annual cruise, and things like that. Sure, he promotes packaged foods, gives imperfect personal advice, and downplays the troubles he's had with his own weight. But I tend to think the larger result of his overall involvement with the field carries a lot more value.

PJ

eek. No, I don't follow that blog but I found the tone kind of mean. I did read that article though.

What was your question about it, Merpig? do we agree with what she said, or should it be war, or ?

I agree on the matter of being forthcoming and open about your own journey if you're going to set yourself up as a guru or a guide. But I do feel the need to point out that CarbSane hasn't really done much better than Jimmy in the weight loss, and especially maintenance, department. It may seem cruel to say so, and that's not my intention, but she can really only point a finger at Jimmy's reticence and not at his struggle -- her own approach doesn't seem to have gotten her very much further than his approach has gotten him.

I'm one of those people who do very well with lots of fat and few carbs. I have some VLC days when the mood strikes. Is this woman saying that's not healthy? Because it is, for me.

I had no actual questions, just bringing it up as the entire blog is sort of a "war zone" topic, and I thought some people might be interested in it. I find a lot of what she has to say of interest, but I also think the tone is kind of mean, and she does too much of pinpointing specific individuals and saying, because they are still not at goal weight, that they are poor representatives of the LC community - as in her post about 'why are so many prominent low carbers still fat?" so some such post title.

In one of her posts she picked on Laura Dolson, the lowcarb guide at about.com. Laura is a lovely person. In fact she and I were "roomies" on the 2010 low carb cruise, and will be again in 2011. But yes, she is not skinny. She admits that she lost a certain amount of weight on low carb, but then the weight loss stalled at a point where she is still surely technically obese. And that she has remained at this same weight for about 10 years now. And yes, sure she would like to lose more, but so many of her other health markers have improved that she stays LC.

But CarbSane did choose her to pick on, including some photos of Laura. And I do think it's a mean-spirited thing to do to pick on people by name. Heck if I were a prominent low carber she'd probably pick on her too since I'm clearly still obese! Luckily I fly under the radar map. Though I have tried to make a few comments on her blog. She made nasty comments about several people, including Dana Carpender, who is actually one hot-looking lady in her 50s, so I replied about several of the people she had referenced in one single reply to one of her blog posts (rather than doing lots of replies for each one). But after she told me: So I gave up at that point since she didn't seem to be understanding me either. Yes I brought up Dana as she had mentioned Dana in another post, indicating she was another low carb "failure". Even though I've met Dana and think she looks great and has a fabulous figure even if she's not built like a fashion model stick insect, which apparently must be CarbSane's standard for "success".

But through it all she does bring up some interesting points, such as: And I think that concept is worth discussing, or even arguing about in the War Zone, since - despite many successes - we also see her a great many LCers who have *not* gotten slender despite low-term adherence to their eating plan, <raises hand> . And why not? Clearly it's not as simple as Atkins or Eades or the other gurus make out. So worth talking about I think!

Eh, there are all kinds of ways to get traffic to your blog. Carb, um, uh, Sane has taken the Anthony Colpo-Matt Stone approach of trolling the big names and making personal attacks on them to stir up sh*t, with just enough scientific references (most of them misapplied) mixed in to give her credibility. Since most people can't resist a good food fight it brings a fair number of visitors to what would otherwise be a 5-visitor-a-month blog.

A few months ago she was trolling Peter at Hyperlipid and throwing around all kinds of scientific references, and after engaging her and patiently explaining to her why she was misinterpreting the literature, and being met with more poo flinging, he asked his readers not to engage her on his blog. Since I think Peter is the smartest of the LC/paleo bloggers, I decided to take his advice.

Oh well, ripping on CarbSane is kind of a turkey shoot, but I feel better now, anyway. Debbie, are you one of the folks here who has hit a dead end with losing on LC? If so, I can understand why you're frustrated and are drawn to the questions she raises.

True, I think somewhere it says that she is 5'3" and still about 200 pounds. Though apparently she thinks she is "better" than most women that height and weight as she fits into size 10 jeans, and how many other women of the same height/weight can say that!

And I agree with PJ, that Jimmy Moore is of tremendous value in the field of weight loss and nutrition. Okay, maybe his "20 pound gain", for example, was a 30-pound loss followed by a 50-pound gain, but the net is still a 20-pound gain. Jimmy struggles as many of us struggle. I don't think that makes his contribution any less valuable.

I just wish CarbSane could be less mean-spirited and lay off all the personal attacks, as I think she actually has some interesting things to say. I just hate the way she says it. But I still follow her blog trying to pick the wheat from the chaff.

Why do people think Jimmy is not open about his weight struggles? I follow his blog and listen to the odd podcast if its a guest that interests me - I even listened to the one where he had carbsane on. I consider myself to be an average follower of the blog and I'm well aware of the struggles he has in trying to maintain and continue his weight loss. I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan, but he is a good resource and has had some guests on who've been great - Chris Masterjohn and also Kurt Harris were excellent podcasts.

I have been to the carbsane website in the past and I find her to be somewhat unbalanced in her hatred of Gary Taubes and the personal attacks she levels at him. By all means disagree with his theories and offer up science to back up your position and enter the debate, but attacking a someone personally is not acceptable. I haven't been back, but I may go and look to see the articles posted.

I do believe in most of HAES - which is from a book written by Linda Bacon which has the theory that obese people can be healthy without trying to diet, and that the act of trying to diet leads to poorer health. Those that try to diet yo yo and this has bad effects on health. So it suggests that obese people should not try to diet, but just to live in a healthy way - ie exercise, eat the right foods etc. The theory is based on a study she did, and ties in with size acceptance.

The two things I don't agree with is firstly, the nutritional guidelines which are lower fat and healthy grains. But the theory that I can be healthier by living healthier even without losing all the weight is true - I've managed to become healthier (not healthy though) by eating right and supplementing right. Secondly, I don't agree that its ok just to stay my size. I think that people who are merely overweight or obese might be able to be perfectly healthy eating low carb, high fat and exercising - though I think they would lose weight naturally from doing this. But I think that someone my size does need to have weight loss as a goal as well as health. But the trick is that the changes need to be a permanent lifestyle change and not a diet.

The problem with the size acceptance community is since HAES, they are now far less accepting of those who still want to lose weight, and have really taken on board the idea that they should be accepted and not have to try and lose weight.

My take on size acceptance is slightly different. I believe that my size should not be an issue with anyone, that I should be accepted and not discriminated against and not be subject to abuse and ridicule. And also that my weight loss efforts, if I'm making any should be my choice and private, between me and whoever I choose to tell or seek advice from. Being discriminated against at a size acceptance site is kind of ironic, but happened to me when I questioned the HAES nutritional guidelines and suggested that low carb, high fat was optimal for health.

Lee

Thought so - we were posting at the same time. I guess my best answer is that there's so much we don't know about health and weight loss. As Peter D. put it once, the paradigm is so corrupt that none of the studies are even asking the right questions yet. Example: design a study of low carb diets and the lowest carb group is eating 30% carbs - which isn't low carb.

One thing I'd like to know is how many of the folks who can't lose anymore on LC (and it did work for you at first, didn't it?) are coming from a background of having a lot of weight to lose. Are there any LC "failures" (for lack of a better word) who were less than 100 lbs. overweight? My theory is that long-term obesity will work permanent changes in the metabolism of some people - not all of them, obviously, because you can find 100+ losses on LC everywhere. But just as different people handle carbs in their diet differently (guys like Kurt Harris can eat rice krispies for breakfast and still be endomorphs), we also handle obesity differently.

If I were in your position, I'd go on my own exploration of the literature. I'd also read Peter's blog from start to finish. Carbsane is really all about personality and drama, which is a distraction from what you're looking for.

Just read the whole article and it reminded me why I dislike carbsane so much (apart from her often poor use of science). surely if you have a good argument scientifically, then it can stand on its own and you don't need to go around personally attacking every blogger who believes the thing that you're against - in this case low carb, high fat. I don't know any other credible blogger that I read who makes personal attacks on people. Even the campaign against Hope Warshaw was about the advice she gave and the science its based on, and not about her personally.

Everything she wrote about Jimmy, she got from his own writings - so he's hardly hiding it. Yes he may not have realised that calories can count - Gary Taubes admits this. And he may also have psychological issues around food.

I don't know any LC blogger who thinks that the food is the only factor in obesity. There are other things involved, particularly psychological and emotional issues around food and metabolic damage. As a previous poster said, there's still so much we don't know about obesity. But a good start is to get the food right, and hopefully we can eventually figure out the rest.

Lee

CarbSane lies a lot, which is why she's constantly accusing other bloggers of lying (pot meet kettle). She's definitely lying about this. I wear a size 10, and I'm 5'1 and weigh 118. Not that it matters - unless you're calling out other people for being dishonest.