I would say so for sure. If we go by the newer research and research on keto/low carb...
1) We get it non harmful muscle resistance from running on fats, the cells ignore glucose more to save it for the brain
2) Our visceral fat is our bodies highest storage of palmitate, so when we are losing weight..
.....a) We are releasing a ton of FFA's period into the blood
.....b) Much of it is the palmiate

I would say, during weightloss, a good consumption of mono fats, like olive oil would even MORE improtant, regardless of the fat types in the diet. Keep that palmitate neutralized!

I'm a little less excited about oleic acid, but then I eat very ketogenically--so the glucose half of glucolipotoxicity is largely taken out of the picture. But it really does seem like something worth paying attention to for anybody whose blood glucose doesn't go down to normal levels. I have been meaning to do an experiment with olive oil, but heavy cream is so much yummier.

Right on, if a person's BG's are in a truly normal low area, then that at least really reduces or even negates the power of palmitate to harm. Plus, if your in Keto, I doubt your sucking down pounds of sugar to even 'make' the extra palmtiate anyway

But I'm thinking, a couple tablespoons a day, only good could come from that. I'm still losing blubber so for sure I want the good stuff flowing in me. Even eating a spoonful of virgin cold pressed coconut fat every day too, yum. bleh!

Heavy cream.. oh man I hear ya!

I'm another one on keto, and I don't get too excited about consuming sources of palmitic acid, as one has to consider where the harmful SFA originates. Here are a few excerpts from an interesting article by Dariush Mozaffarian published in the Lancet related to Diabetes and Endocrinology:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...0166-4/fulltext


I highlighted his last sentence in bold. So, the question raised is whether the damaging SFAs come from the diet or are produced endogenously and indirectly from carbs. Good question!

The article continues:

The author is requesting a review of the Dietary Guidelines due to these new, and still incompletely understood findings. I agree he has a good argument, as this is simply one of many good reasons to critically review/ rewrite the Dietary Guidelines. What we put in our mouths may be very different and have a different effect from the variant with the same name created by our metabolism.

In a few of those studies I posted they did trace it. Of course, even indirectly, all substrates come from diet, but the key FFA they have traced, and traced it to organ cell disfunction is palmitate. The excess comes from 2 places. Visceral fat, and creation from dietary carbs, namely sugar. FFA creation needs glucose to donate the glycerol molecule as the 'backbone' of the FFA. If glucose is low in the blood, trig production is crippled. But also, palmitate creation is very limited.

I agree, it seems this info is starting to filter down, my dream is the grocery store having low carb foods instead of high sugar low fat!
Another study I've read not only showed the superiority of low carb vs high carb low fat, but remarked even with weightloss and some lowered blood fat levels with low fat diets, that the high glucose was noted to have detrimental effects in general.

Good post, hadn't seen that study before!

That's the key. Dietary consumption of a variant does not mean that the variant in question is introduced directly by consumption of that variant. This is the same mistake made when Keys purported that consumption of fatty foods resulted in dangerous blood cholesterol levels. Unfortunately, this is still a strong perception today, and it likely will take years for the medical community and the government to move away from this thinking. It's not intuitive to believe that FFA substances like palmitate can come from dietary carbs and not dietary fats; however, that's exactly what's happening.

Good discussion and one that many on this forum are very familiar with and plugged in to. Explore the other forum topics, as I'm sure you'll find a lot of good information consistent with your research and current beliefs. There are lots of knowledgeable posters here who contribute regularly.

Right on, exactly.

Cool, I will for sure, been reading a lot on here, you guys have some awsome info. I'm a study-science nut for the human body, so all this stuff is great to me!

Interesting.

So how much oleic acid, hypothetically, would we need to see some benefit if the theory is true? Would a tablespoon of olive oil make any meaningful difference?

Not sure anybody knows. I've seen Stephen Phinney in some videos talking about a mix he makes, I think it's half butter half olive oil, he whips it together and it stays spreadable in the fridge. His rationale for doing this was that it more closely approximated the fatty acid profile of human fat stores than either fat alone.

It could be an individual thing as well, we can synthesize oleic acid from palmitic acid, beta cells with an increased ability to produce their own oleic acid have been shown to better resist damage.

There does seem to be at least a subset of the insulin resistant population that does better by replacing some milkfat with something like olive oil, some people with an elevated ldl particle count have reported that it's gone down when they've made that change. When Jimmy Moore did a 17 day fast a few months ago, his particle count went down considerable. Of course that took chylomicrons etc. out of the picture. But most of his fat before that seems to come from dairy fat, the richest common source of palmitic acid, switching to bodyfat for most of his energy should almost certainly have increased his ratio of oleic acid to palmitic.

Good post teaser!
I'll just add, excess palmitate comes from high sugar, and it only causes issues when blood glucose is elevated, so if your low carb, you have low bg and no high sugar consumption so safe. Me, I go for 1-2 tbs a day, just for piece of mind

So long as I keep the carbs down, my cholesterol levels are kind of ludicrously good (I don't out much stock in the concept, overall, though) but even eating nothing but meat, my blood sugar stays in the high(ish) range*.

So I'm willing to take a stab at anything that might decrease my insulin resistance. This has worked well so far, but I'm not where I want to be.

* I need to experiment and seeing what eating mostly fat does. Given my overall carb levels, some gluconeogenesis has to be going on for my blood sugar to do what it does, I think.

And that's the key, consumption of high carbs induces the metabolism to produce palmitate. As mentioned earlier, FFAs in the blood are not the direct result of dietary consumption. Note that nuances of this dynamic is still being researched, but it's equivalent to what we know today, blood lipids are not the direct product of dietary consumption. Cholesterol and other lipid markers can change positively when carbs are reduced, far greater than changes due to the reduction dietary fats. Sorry if I'm overstating the obvious here. Consumption of oleic acid (olive oil) is confirmed to be healthy consumption.

As for the BG isssues, many on low carb with a previous history of high BG continue to get somewhat high BG readings for a while after cutting carbs. It could be due to gluconeogenisis if your protein is high. I know my BG was high normal when I was consuming over 100g of protein per day. When I cut back to around 60-70g, or when I fast, which eliminates protein, my BG is normal even during the time for dawn phenomenon. It appears I'm sensitive to protein and need to eat a very moderate amount.

I did too at first.
Fasting BG was about 121
I ate lower carb, it dropped to high 90's
Went VLC, went back up to 105 for a while
Now, it's running mid 80's most the time, sometimes 70's, sometimes low 90's. But really normalized now.
Now I'm getting good results with about 50-60 g a day. With some meals at 0, and a few days of 0 here and there.

I think their approach is wrong mainly because diabetes is not the only consequence of the SAD and its high carb content. As for the defective part, to me, it is a recognition that some people can eat the same diet and never become diabetic.

I had a viral infection that caused my body to dump almost a liter of fluid on my heart, necessitating a pericardial window (emergency surgery to slice the pericardium to drain the fluid that compresses the heart, eventually fatally).