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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Feb-25-17, 02:16
Canary777 Canary777 is offline
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Posts: 5
 
Plan: fodmap
Stats: 180/180/130 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress:
Default does using MCT oil to kickstart ketosis?

I've tried atkins and couldn't stick to it.... I missed veggies, and couldn't digest very well on that diet... However, I did feel like there were good benefits, like even energy (no afternoon dip) and my head felt clear.

Dave Asprey claims that his MCT oil products kickstart ketosis... is this true? I'd like to try a ketogenic diet, one that's less strict than atkins and using MCT oil to help drive ketosis... So, I can get the benefits of atkins/ketosis, but also get the nutrients and fiber from veggies.

Has anyone tried this?
Does it work?
How much MCT oil did you take per day?
Any food / diet guidelines to share?

thanks
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Feb-25-17, 04:40
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Short answer: NO. Nor Keto-OS or any other exogenous ketones the on-line ketone and coffee salesmen are promoting. Ask how many patients were treated, for how long under clinical supervision, and what were the monitored test results.

Here is an excellent beginners Guide to the Ketogenic Diet with food lists, written by doctors with years of clinical experience in the LC/keto world.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto

Read the entire guide but the basics of the diet are:
Quote:
Restrict carbohydrates to 20 digestible grams per day or less – a strict low-carb diet. Fiber does not have to be restricted, it might even be beneficial.

Restrict protein to moderate levels. If possible stay at or below 1 gram of protein per day, per kg of body weight. So about 70 grams of protein per day if you weigh 70 kilos (154 pounds). It might be beneficial to lower protein intake even more, especially when overweight, and then aim for 1 gram of protein per kg of desired weight. The most common mistake that stops people from reaching optimal ketosis is too much protein.

Eat enough fat to feel satisfied. This is the big difference between a ketogenic diet and starvation, that also results in ketosis. A ketogenic diet is sustainable, starvation is not.

Avoid snacking when not hungry. Unnecessary snacking slows weight loss and reduces ketosis.

If necessary add intermittent fasting, like 16:8. This is very effective at boosting ketone levels, as well as accelerating weight loss and type 2 diabetes reversal.

Usually not necessary: Supplement MCT oil and/or Bulletproof coffee.
Usually not necessary: Supplement exogenous ketones.



You can add a good amount of high fiber vegetables if you plan well. Some plans use total carbs and do not subtract fiber, but the classic keto diet formulas for epilepsy and cancer did use net carbs and that's what I follow.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Feb-25-17 at 15:37.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Feb-25-17, 06:52
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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If you like vegetables like I do, shoot for the ones with the most bulk for the carb buck. My rule of thumb is vegetables with <3-4g NC per 100g fresh. I also use very small amounts of garlic, ginger, onion (sucks but they have quite a bit of carbs I found out early)

You can eat a lot of (x) using this formula:
Spinach
Lettuce(s)
Collard Greens
Diakon
Cabbage
Bok Choy
Gai Lan
Mustard Greens
etc, etc...

Study up! If you can tolerate fiber you will do well!

edit



After looking at another thread I found this again> The list I used when I first started. it might be wrong but it works for me. It's still in my cupboard and but I have it memorized pretty much still what I eat (added a few others) The list on the back side has a translation of what my oven dial says the temp in my oven should be to what it actually is according to a thermometer. That's pretty handy too

Last edited by thud123 : Sat, Feb-25-17 at 07:10. Reason: found list
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Feb-25-17, 10:14
DelaneyLC DelaneyLC is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,462
 
Plan: Keto/Carnivore/Fasting
Stats: 190/143/144 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 102%
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Why are you missing vegetables? You can eat vegetables on Atkins. If you like vegetables then eat up, just stay away from the starchy ones. Think green.

I can't use MCT oil or coconut oil because it causes my LDL to shoot up.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 04:56
Canary777 Canary777 is offline
New Member
Posts: 5
 
Plan: fodmap
Stats: 180/180/130 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress:
Default

wow! you have to eat 20 grams of carbs per day to get into ketosis? I thought it was more like 50 or less...

Is that NET GRAMS? wow... I hope so

thanks
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 05:04
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Yes, 20g, if you want to be sure you will get into ketosis and become fat-adapted. It is a level that works for most everyone.
Yes, that is digestible Carbs, or net carbs, subtracting real food fiber (like veggies) not processed fiber like inulin in LC protein bar. Be happy that is allowed...in the clinical trials it is dropped to 20g total


Here is the vegetable list from a respected Keto diet for cancer and Epilepsy

Quote:
VEGETABLES The emphasis here should be on non-starchy choices. When possible, choose organically raised foods.

Asparagus Broccoli Brussels Sprouts Cabbage Cauliflower Celery Cucumbers Greens (for sautéing) Kale Mushrooms Salad Greens Spinach Zucchini

After you are keto-adapted, you can add back in limited amounts of these foods: Garlic Onions Peppers Tomatoes

FRUITS Despite what you hear about the antioxidant properties of fruit, our bodies are not adapted to handling a high intake of fructose (a.k.a., “fruit sugar”). This is even more problematic for people with cancer. Fruits raise blood glucose/insulin and interfere with keto-adaptation.


Your plan lists FodMap, if you are still following that also, cross off the high fodmaps from the Keto vegetable list. You will have a select list of Low fodmap, high fiber Keto-friendly vegetables.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Feb-26-17 at 06:55.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 08:07
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

There's an MCT diet for epilepsy, it does help to maintain ketosis with a somewhat higher carbohydrate intake, but the diet is still fairly high in fat, example from a study here;


Quote:
MCT diets were commenced on a full prescription for carbohydrate (generally 15% energy), protein (usually 10% energy), and long-chain fatty acids (usually 30% energy). The MCT fat was increased incrementally over a 7–10 day period as tolerated, to an initial level that was usually 40–45% of total dietary energy. Diets were fully supplemented with vitamins and minerals.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...08.01870.x/full

At 12 months, beta hydroxybutyrate measured at 3.37 millimolar vs. 4.24 millimolar on a stricter diet with 90 percent of calories of fat. But that's a lot of mct oil to get that result. On a more usual dose, you can expect more like a transient 0.5 millimolar bump in ketones an hour or two after the dose. I participate in a keto for neurological issues group (I have mental health issues), a lot of people do use mct oil there and report good results, but only as an add-on to a fairly strict ketogenic diet.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 09:04
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,036
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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The general rule I follow is that if you're using ketosis to kick start or maintain weight loss, adding an exogenous MCT source doesn't make sense. It's not hard to achieve ketosis if you stay within the guidelines mentioned, and the key is to keep carbs very low and keep protein moderate to low (see Janet's post). Too much protein can undermine this process. The purpose here is to achieve ketosis by burning your existing body fat. Adding MCT in this case simply substitutes an outside fat source for the fat you already have. The additional benefits of having sustained energy and feeling clear headed are a bonus here. You can do this on your own without the need of help from outside sources.

If you are adopting a ketogenic diet for reasons other than weight loss, and there are very good reasons to do this, exogenous ketones can be effective to boost ketone levels and to accelerate achieving ketosis.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-17, 10:01
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36,355
 
Plan: KetoCarnivore
Stats: 206.6/178/160 Female 5'7
BF:awesome
Progress: 61%
Location: USA
Default

here's a food list and instructions on how to do a keto diet and it's free..
Keto Vegetable List

I'll say this.... once you begin eating clean, from scratch, simple foods..
get rid of foods full of chemicals and processing... you will feel so good and your body will heal, in every respect...
then when you try to eat food from say... TGIFriday's... chances are, you will be in the bathroom, all night long.... our body can not really handle all the chemicals they're putting in our food...
it's amazing how sick one gets when we eat food from restaurants, that are not preparing food from scratch.

Last edited by PilotGal : Sun, Feb-26-17 at 10:13.
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