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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 00:54
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Default Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

Quote:
From The Guardian
London, UK
9 August, 2018

Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

New research reignites a row with scientists who want to reduce salt intake to near zero


Salt may not be as damaging to health as is usually claimed, according to a controversial new study which suggests campaigns to persuade people to cut down may only be worthwhile in countries with very high sodium consumption, such as China.

The World Health Organization recommends cutting sodium intake to no more than 2g a day – the equivalent of 5g of salt – because of the link to increased blood pressure, which is in turn implicated in stroke.

But no country has ever managed to get population salt or sodium intake that low, the authors of the study published in the Lancet medical journal point out. Their research, the Canadian academics say, shows it may be pointless to try in countries like the UK and the US.

The study by Prof Andrew Mente from the Population Health Research Institute of Hamilton Health Sciences and McMaster University and colleagues is large, involving more than 90,000 people in more than 300 communities in 18 countries. But it immediately reignited a simmering row with other scientists who are on a crusade to reduce our salt consumption to near zero.

Mente and colleagues found that the harmful effects of sodium – raised blood pressure and stroke – only occurred in countries like China, where the liberal use of soy sauce leads to sodium levels over 5g a day, the equivalent of 12g of salt. And they found that very low levels of salt actually led to more heart attacks and deaths, suggesting moderate salt intake may be protective.

“Our study adds to growing evidence to suggest that, at moderate intake, sodium may have a beneficial role in cardiovascular health, but a potentially more harmful role when intake is very high or very low. This is the relationship we would expect for any essential nutrient and health. Our bodies need essential nutrients like sodium, but the question is how much,” said Mente.

Two years ago, the same team published a study with similar results, also in the Lancet, looking at individuals. It was lambasted by critics, who called it “bad science” and its findings were rejected by the American Heart Association.

The latest observational study – not a randomised controlled trial which compares different groups of people – looks at communities rather than individuals. It immediately came in for heavy criticism. The chief complaint was that it did not accurately measure the amount of sodium in people’s urine, which needs to be done over a 24 hour period.

"The authors have not addressed any of the serious criticisms from the wider scientific community of their 2016 study,” said Graham MacGregor, professor of cardiovascular medicine at Queen Mary University of London, and founder of the salt-reduction campaign Cash (Consensus Action on Salt and Health). “These criticisms include the use of ill participants in the study, leading to reverse causality (ie those suffering with heart disease don’t eat much food, and consequently eat less salt, but it is the illness that leads to death rather than lower salt intake), and the use of spot urine measurements.”

Tom Sanders, professor emeritus of nutrition and dietetics at King’s College London, said campaigns to lower salt intake have been beneficial in some countries. “Intakes of salt in the UK have fallen over the past 30 years from over 12g per day to 7 to 8g per day, and this has been accompanied by a fall in average blood pressure of the population. Japan used to have a very high prevalence of high blood pressure and high rates of stroke, and took action to cut salt intake in the 1970s and now has much lower rates,” he said.

But it is not easy to persuade people to forgo salt, say Franz Messerli and Louis Hofstetter, experts from Switzerland and New York in a commentary on the Lancet findings. They cite Sir George Pickering, regius professor of medicine at the University of Oxford, who wrote more than half a century ago: “The rigid low-sodium diet is insipid, unappetising, monotonous, unacceptable, and intolerable. To stay on it requires the asceticism of a religious zealot.”
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The new study measured potassium as well as sodium levels in people’s urine and found that higher potassium, which is found in fruit and vegetables, cut rates of stroke, heart disease and death. “Perhaps salt-reduction evangelists and salt-addition libertarians could temporarily put aside their vitriol and support the hypothesis that diets rich in potassium confer substantially greater health benefits than aggressive sodium reduction,” they write.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...ught-says-study



Quote:
Urinary sodium excretion, blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, and mortality: a community-level prospective epidemiological cohort study

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...1376-X/fulltext
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 04:56
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Default

The lead author on that study gave a good talk at LC Breckenridge on the topic of Heart Disease and Salt.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/heart-disease-and-salt

This talk plus the book, The Salt Fix makes the strong argument that too little salt (where heart guidelines are) is worse than too much salt.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 08:25
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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I've read James Dinicolantonio's The Salt Fix: Why the Experts Got It All Wrong--And How Eating More Might Save Your Life (2017) and it was an eye opener.

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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 08:26
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
The lead author on that study gave a good talk at LC Breckenridge on the topic of Heart Disease and Salt.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/heart-disease-and-salt

This talk plus the book, The Salt Fix makes the strong argument that too little salt (where heart guidelines are) is worse than too much salt.
it looks interesting, but only 2 minutes are accessible for mere mortals. what was the gist of his talk?
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 08:30
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
I've read James Dinicolantonio's The Salt Fix: Why the Experts Got It All Wrong--And How Eating More Might Save Your Life (2017) and it was an eye opener.




LOL

I follow the recommendations of salt for livestock. Not a doctor.

-------------------------

I use: galic salt, iodized salt, pink himilayan salt, low salt or no salt, and thinking about grey salt.......

My horses get a block of pink salt to play with at times. Otherwise they get a big 50 pound mineralized salt block ad lib. OMG !!!! lol
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 09:51
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teaser teaser is offline
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Default

Quote:
“The rigid low-sodium diet is insipid, unappetising, monotonous, unacceptable, and intolerable. To stay on it requires the asceticism of a religious zealot.”


Strictly speaking, it's not any of these things. But the modern, Western, buffet/cafeteria style diet makes any more traditionally normal food or cuisine seem bland. Also when you crave certain foods, other things seem less interesting by comparison. When the only salt you eat is in junk food, also, doesn't that give the junk food a bit of an advantage, appeal-wise?

And in a world without salt shakers, 24 hour urinary salt is a good proxy for processed food with added salts. And in a world of processed foods, where many non-"fruit and vegetable" type foods are depleted of their natural levels of potassium--lack of potassium is also a good proxy for processed foods.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 09:59
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
it looks interesting, but only 2 minutes are accessible for mere mortals. what was the gist of his talk?


Mere mortals can sign up for the free month, then unsubscribe, and do that as often as you wish. But if the content has value to you, consider supporting Dr. Eenfeldt's brave venture.

Dr. Mente had lots of dense slides that I would sum up as this:
Quote:
“Our study adds to growing evidence to suggest that, at moderate intake, sodium may have a beneficial role in cardiovascular health, but a potentially more harmful role when intake is very high or very low. This is the relationship we would expect for any essential nutrient and health. Our bodies need essential nutrients like sodium, but the question is how much,” said Mente.


Like many nutrients, there is a J curve to optimal intake. Don't be at either end, and the AHA recommendations are way down into the "too low" for your own good territory.


This half hour video is probably the similar, minus a little humor he had at Breckenridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWzaT5wJ20M

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Aug-10-18 at 10:08.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 15:11
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWzaT5wJ20M


Salt is important to creating wonderful flavors. Im glad to see that a teaspoon a day is regarded as reasonable. He breifly mentions the balancing effect of potassium to th sodium but did not elaborate. By cooking at home, and I dont mean opening a can of ready to eat meals, the amount of salt is far less than what is in cans and ready to eat.

In my house we cook OFTEN
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 16:47
Zei Zei is offline
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The body isn't stupid. Even live stock who can't read nutrition labels can figure out how much from those salt licks they need. When not getting sodium from junk food sources, just eat as much as you feel like you need.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 17:00
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Default

yup.........
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Aug-10-18, 20:40
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BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Default

Wait, I thought we were supposed to eat just like the Chinese because of The China Study. Nobody ever told me their diet was high in salt.

I do have a question though. Where exactly did Paleo man get lots of salt if he didn't live by the sea?

Also, why do animals like salt licks so much and lick the roads where they are salted in winter? They seem to love it so much, but it doesn't seem to be a huge part of their natural diet.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Aug-11-18, 04:37
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
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Long before humans fenced the land, the herd animals roamed long distances, and they knew where the salt lick areas were. The midwest used to be a sea, I am guessing that some of that salt was imbedded into the soils. Im not a geologist, Im offering that as a possibilityfor how some of the salt lick areas formed.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sat, Aug-11-18 at 05:33.
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Aug-11-18, 04:57
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s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWzaT5wJ20M


Salt is important to creating wonderful flavors. Im glad to see that a teaspoon a day is regarded as reasonable. He breifly mentions the balancing effect of potassium to th sodium but did not elaborate. By cooking at home, and I dont mean opening a can of ready to eat meals, the amount of salt is far less than what is in cans and ready to eat.

In my house we cook OFTEN
Thank you!

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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-18, 06:21
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rpavich rpavich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
I do have a question though. Where exactly did Paleo man get lots of salt if he didn't live by the sea?

It depends on your view of who/what this Paleo man was and what his environment was like.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-18, 08:21
Verbena Verbena is offline
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For 47 of my first 50 years I lived within 8 miles of salt water; within several 100 feet for a good part of that time. I used very little salt in my cooking, and actively disliked salty foods as a child. I am convinced that I got the salt I needed from the sea air. After 2 years living away from the sea I started salting my food, wondering as I did what had happened. When I moved back to the coast I ceased adding salt. About 2 years after moving to Oregon, not on the coast, I again started feeling the need for more salt, though still not anywhere near a teaspoon a day. All of these changes happened automatically; I salt "to taste", not because I've been told I should. Living by the ocean apparently gave me what I needed, plus sufficient to hold me over approximately 2 years. As Zei mentioned above, the body isn't stupid; it knows what it needs, and we just need to pay attention.
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