This is, to me, what it's all about. I too have to say that even though I feel stalled and want to lose more, the benefits I have had eating this way for so long far outweighs the frustration of the scale and tape measurer not moving. I'm in it for the long haul even though it's slow at my age and weight. I am going to focus on all the good things about this way of eating and not letting the stalls get me down. I"m actually anxious for my physical next year and seeing the results of a full year of eating this way. The support on this forum is wonderful. Thank you all!

I stopped at Half Price Books today - just in case someone has bought the Volek/Phinney book and already sold it. They didn't have any of The Art and Science of ... books, but they did have another book by Jeff Volek: TNT Diet.

The back cover promises you can lose weight without counting calories and exercising only 90 minutes a week. More inconsistent advice IMO.

With cutting calories, I always come back to the question of whether I want to go through the rest of my life hungry. It always brings to mind the fairy tale about the little mermaid who gets legs, but it always feels like she's walking on sharp objects. Except I wouldn't actually achieve slimness. The best I could hope for is maybe 10 pounds off - not even enough for anyone to notice or even to bring me below the obese cutoff. Why suffer so much for so little? And I don't believe the hunger will go away when (if!) I lose weight. (I've done that too - starved myself and lost nothing.) My experience with every low calorie diet I've ever done is that the hunger gets gradually more intense over time. It's like you're running a constant deficit that has to be filled at some point.

I'd rather be sane, happy, and fat than a wee bit lighter but always always always hungry and weak and thinking about food.

Just my take on it.

I don't get it. I'm not that hungry on NK. You don't get any satiety on LC? I'm finding that my calories are drifting down without any discomfort. How many calories are you trying to eat?

Oh, I'm hungry. There have been several days when I've consciously tried to cut calories, and each time I ended up feeling weak and hungry. But even the days when I'm not trying to reduce calories, I seldom feel completely satisfied. Last night I finally made a dinner that was so high in calories and fat, and afterward I felt completely satisfied and uninterested in food.

I think that part of my problem is that I don't know how many calories I was eating before. It was certainly a greater quantity of food, but I was eating less fat which is so calorie dense. It's hard for me to compare. I suppose I could try to figure out a typical day and estimate what I typically consumed. It's possible that the 2000 or so I'm currently eating is a good deal less than I was eating before. For all I know I was eating 3000 calories a day, and now I'm shorting myself 1000 calories. I just don't know.

I ended up with the 2000 figure, as I said, by picking a carb amount and a protein amount and adding enough fat to get the ratios I want. It has nothing to do with satiety.

But, yeah, I feel hungry most days.

Btw, I think having your calories drift down because you're not feeling hungry is the goal. That's what I'm hoping for too. That's different IMO that consciously cutting calories.

I wonder if you've got issues with cortisol? Maybe worth talking to a doctor about? Or doing one of those 24 hour saliva tests you can get online.

I couldn't do this if I was hungry all the time either. But I usually find that cutting calories gently isn't that difficult. Are you going to extremes when you cut your calories.

Could be. A few years ago I had a compounding pharmacist ask that I have cortisol tested, but the doctor ordered a blood test. The pharmacist commented it wasn't the right test. The blood test came back normal, and I never pursued it past that.

Would cortisol increase hunger?



I don't think so. 100 or 200 calories.

Not to scare you, but just something to think about, there are insulin producing tumors and cortisol producing tumors as well. But with your bg going so high, I'm wondering if maybe your liver is going overboard with GNG. In which case, metformin could be of some help, perhaps.

Hi Arlene,

I love the insightful work you have published here for everyone who is interested in regard to your blood ketones. Nice & thanks!

Do you do any lifting of weights (a 2-3x's per week) before eating?

I remember myself having trouble eating high fat/moderate protein/low carb
(I could eat an absurd amount of calories and not gain, but couldn't lose much while cutting calories.)

What really helped me is that I started lifting (relative to me) heavy weights intensely (for about 10 minutes) in the late morning before eating. That really is when my body started to change for the better.

I would just do a couple of sets for all major body parts and then most of my allotted daily carbs 1 or 2 hours after that. That helped a tremendous amount and I always looked forward to it as it helped me wake up.

I walked for multiple thousands of miles every year and it never changed my body composition while tracking calories.

It seems to allow more of the allotted daily carbs to partition into the muscle cells & it was the only change I did.

I was wondering if you had a body composition test / or used a tape measure when you started measuring blood ketones as compared to your current body composition status?

My weight hardly changed on low carb/mod protein/high fat, but my body composition has definitely changed without almost any scale weight decrease.

I lift heavy (for me and am told for most women my age) two times a week before I eat. I use machines one day and very heavy free weights on the second day. I do full push ups, steps, and balance as well as modified sit ups and more. One day I do a water aerobics class and another a strngth stretching (no weights) class. I walk 6 miles on Sunday. I have had both hips ad both knees replaced and my back fused. I have severe arthritis but since eating this way, my pain is gone, I take nothing.

I space my carbs out during the day. I eat two main meals, and a snack. I f really hungry another snack midday, but rarely.

I did not have a body comp test done and tried using a tape but I am compulsive about that and could not get accurate measurements.

Hope this helps!

DAY 38 August 26, 2012
149.4*
Not testing today

Food later

*It took me four days to get back into NK and seven days to get back to the weight I was on the day I left for my short trip.

Yesterday I listened to Jimmy Moore interview Dr. Phinney. Jimmy's experience was what prompted me to do this experiment and the interview backed up some of the things I have learned. I thought it was a very good interview with information that touched on what I needed. I took some notes and will be using them to write the synopsis of this journey, which is going to end soon.

I could not edit and add food this morning so I repeated the post.

DAY 38 August 26, 2012
149.4*
Not testing today

1592 Calories
48 carbs (28 net)
78 g protein
127 g fat

*It took me four days to get back into NK and seven days to get back to the weight I was on the day I left for my short trip.

Yesterday I listened to Jimmy Moore interview Dr. Phinney. Jimmy's experience was what prompted me to do this experiment and the interview backed up some of the things I have learned. I thought it was a very good interview with information that touched on what I needed. I took some notes and will be using them to write the synopsis of this journey, which is going to end soon.

DAY 39 August 27, 2012
150.0*
Glucose 80
Ketones 1.0 (taken 1 hr after lunch-so it is ago for higher protein.)

2143 Calories (high for me)
24 carbs (17 net)
116 g protein (Testing tomorrow to see if I am still in NK. I could not eat any more meat. The high for me is 159g so I should be okay.)
178 g fat

*I ate a lot yesterday. I walked and was hungry. Today, if I am still in NK, I am going to give myself a higher than I usually eat amount of protein, however, I will not go above the amount P/V has said is good for me—between 70 to 145 grams.

DAY 40 August 28, 2012
150.4*
Glucose 85
Ketones 1.0 (YES!!)

No more food listings, especially after I went a bit bonkers with almonds this morning! LOL

*Expected more here, after I ate so much yesterday. Still full.

+++++
+++++
Today is the last time I will test my Ketones for this experiment.

I want to do a review of why I did this---
Goals
1. Am I in nutritional ketosis defined by my serum testing?

2. How long did it take to reach it, if I am not?

3. How easy is it to knock myself out of it?
3a. Looking at protein intake
3b. Looking at carb intake.

4. If I knock myself out, how long will it take to get back in?

5. How do I feel during the phases?

6. How much fat will it take to bring my calories up to maintenance level when I decide to stop?

Conclusions, how much of certain things can I eat? What are my goals with this way of eating?

I weighed 153.3 pounds when I started, July 9th. Today, 150.4. I have been lower on this journey and expect to lose a pound or two from here.

I am sitting here trying to figure out just what I learned. I will answer my questions.
1. Am I in nutritional ketosis defined by my serum testing? I was not when I started the testing, I had knocked myself out on my long trip.
2.How long did it take to reach it, if I am not? On the tenth day of testing, I was in NK. That was what I expected.
3. How easy is it to knock myself out of it?
3a. Looking at protein intake—I found that I can eat more than I want and still be in NK.
3b. Looking at carb intake.—I can knock my self out easily if I overdo carbs. For me, I eat between 30 to 50 net carbs a day normally, Dr Phinny has said over or close to 100 carbs can be a problem. I think that is high for me and chose to keep mine lower.
4. If I knock myself out, how long will it take to get back in? I know now that it takes me about four days to get back to NK after bonking myself out.
5. How do I feel during the phases? This is interesting, I was HUNGRY when I was out of NK and NOT hungry when I was in NK. I wanted to eat at least three meals and snacks out of NK and two meals, one snack in NK. I also had a lot of energy and slept well, in NK.
6. How much fat will it take to bring my calories up to maintenance level when I decide to stop? This is an answer I will find out in the next weeks. I have decided that I am very happy on the lower to medium protein, low carb high fat way of eating, am basically at the weight I want to be so I am going to start figuring out my allotment of fat a day, now. I (me, myself and I) believe in counting calories. For the next few weeks I will be watching my calories as I increase my fat and expect to go up to about 1850 calories, with between 70 to 90 grams of protein, 30 to 50 net carbs and the rest fat.

I am happy I did this, I was curious and now know I can get myself back into NK between four and ten days, depending how long I am out.

I like being there, life is easier without cravings and hunger.

The way I am choosing to eat is for me. I have experimented a lot with myself and will probably be tweaking this as I go a long. After all, this is for the rest of my life.

I am not suggesting this for everyone, but it worked for me.

I believe calories count. I believe one can go on a lower calorie way of eating in many ways. We all know low fat/high carb ways to lose weight. I could at 1200 calories of anything and I will lose weight, I believe. I STARVED at 1200 calories of low fat food. Now, I choose to eat my calories in food I love, bacon, eggs, steak and coconut oil and not be hungry.

I am glad I did this. I found out that I can live this way, be happy and understand the mechanics of HFLC and NK as far as we can in today's science.

Thank you for posting your experimentations and thoughtful review Aradasky!!!

I am very much interested and happy to see your conclusions re: protein intake and ketosis. I am feeling good upping my protein but there are mixed reviews (ie - too much protein) so I was curious to see what you thought based on this experiment. I also believe that our "ideal" ratios re: fat/protein/carb are individual, and that it also depends on what you are making those components out of (coconut oil vs vegetable oil) - a lot of work! I wonder how these ratios will change over our lives too...