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  #61   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 10:48
pamlynn's Avatar
pamlynn pamlynn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 639
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 248.4/245.4/170 Female 5' 6 "
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Michigan
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Thanks ladies:

I've been having pretty high fasting and not terribly high after meals readings. And I do pretty well with my LCing, with a few exceptions. So it sounds like the Lantus should be enough and I don't need any R insulin or anything else? What if he starts me on a low dose of Lantus which is what he's planning because he wants me to take the Actos, can I increase it on my own, if I don't take the Actos?

Okay while I've got you here. I want to ask about my son who is also diabetic. Although he has insurance, it won't cover anything to do with his diabetes (pre-existing condition). He's doing Metformin I think twice a day, but his readings are still way too high. I was thinking about him getting the OTC insulin and using it for his meals or the Lantus if it's not too expensive. I know he would have to learn to do it, but does this sound like something he can/should do? I wouldn't suggest this except he can't get the medical help for his diabetes he needs from his doctors because of his insurance and I'm afraid he's going to get severe complications shortly. When he was first diagnosed his BG was running 500-600. The Met has brought it down but it's still high.
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  #62   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 10:54
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
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Lantus is one of the more expensive insulins and not OTC in the US. The OTC form of long-acting insulin is called NPH and is about $20 at Walmart sold under the brand Relion. It is the same as Novalin N. It is not as flat as Lantus and has a peak. I take N at night for Dawn Phenomenon. It works better than Lantus in that regard.

If you have high fasting BGs, then Lantus or NPH would be the way to go. NPH has a shorter duration of action. It mostly stops working after 8 hours. Depending on the dosage, Lantus lasts 24 hours in higher doses.
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  #63   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 11:25
MizKitty's Avatar
MizKitty MizKitty is offline
95% Sugar Free!
Posts: 7,010
 
Plan: Very high fat LC/HCG
Stats: 310/155.4/159 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 102%
Location: Missouri
Default

Wow, Pamlynn, our situations seem so similar. I also have an adult son with diabetes who is uninsured. I also kept him supplied with metformin for a year, although it wasn't doing enough to help, and then helped him get some Lantus earlier this year.
It was the hardest thing to do to get him to switch to a VLC diet. He knew it was best and needed, but just couldn't stick with it very well.
Finally, he started having serious complications. He went nearly blind from cataracts that he didn't have the money to address, and then developed a serious MRSA infection in a calf muscle and needed surgery to save his leg. He's since gotten lens implants (twice actually, the cataracts grew back in less than 2 years while he wasn't taking care of himself) and his vision fixed, but the seriousness of his health finally caused his "religious" conversion to LC. He's read GCBC, Bernstein, Atkins, and everything else he can get his hands on and; from 400-500 daily BG readings, now has better bloodsugar control than me! He's still on metformin and Lantus, but I think he'll be off the Lantus before the end of the year.

Does your son eat LC? There's just not enough drugs in the world to correct the wrong diet, is there. But whatarewegonnado? After they leave the nest, we can't control what they eat (believe me, I've tried! lol)

Yes, you can adjust the amount of Lantus gradually yourself. That's the nice thing about insulin over pills. I started at 10 units, and stayed there for a couple days to give my body time to react, then would bump it up 1 or 2 units and stay there a few days, testing many times a day to see how my BG was reacting to that dosage.
The most I ever took was 20 units a day, but it didn't seem to do more than 17 units a day had, so I backed back down to 17 units, and stayed there a long time.

When after time and weight loss and metabolic healing, my BG's started to go low (I never hypoed, I just mean I was seeing lots more 80's than 90's), I started weaning myself off the same way... lowering the dose by a unit or 2 every time the BG readings were consistently that low.

Last edited by MizKitty : Thu, Jul-24-08 at 12:52.
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  #64   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:15
pamlynn's Avatar
pamlynn pamlynn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 639
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 248.4/245.4/170 Female 5' 6 "
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MizKitty
Wow, Pamlynn, our situations seem so similar. I also have an adult son with diabetes who is uninsured. I also kept him supplied with metformin for a year, although it wasn't doing enough to help, and then helped him get some Lantus earlier this year.
It was the hardest thing to do to get him to switch to a VLC diet. He knew it was best and needed, but just couldn't stick with it very well.
Finally, he started having serious complications. He went nearly blind from cataracts that he didn't have the money to address, and then developed a serious MRSA infection in a calf muscle and needed surgery to save his leg. He's since gotten lens implants (twice actually, the cataracts grew back in less than 2 years while he wasn't taking care of himself) and his vision fixed, but the seriousness of his health finally caused his "religious" conversion to LC. He's read GCBC, Bernstein, Atkins, and everything else he can get his hands on and; from 400-500 daily BG readings, now has better bloodsugar control than me! He's still on metformin and Lantus, but I think he'll be off the Lantus before the end of the year.

Does your son eat LC? There's just not enough drugs in the world to correct the wrong diet, is there. But whatarewegonnado? After they leave the nest, we can't control what they eat (believe me, I've tried! lol)

Yes, you can adjust the amount of Lantus gradually yourself. That's the nice thing about insulin over pills. I started at 10 units, and stayed there for a couple days to give my body time to react, then would bump it up 1 or 2 units and stay there a few days, testing many times a day to see how my BG was reacting to that dosage.
The most I ever took was 20 units a day, but it didn't seem to do more than 17 units a day had, so I backed back down to 17 units, and stayed there a long time.

When after time and weight loss and metabolic healing, my BG's started to go low (I never hypoed, I just mean I was seeing lots more 80's than 90's), I started weaning myself off the same way... lowering the dose by a unit or 2 every time the BG readings were consistently that low.

Those things you mentioned are just what I'm trying to avoid with my son. He's only had one bad episode where his sugar went so high that his toes on both feet curled up and he could hardly walk. How did you figure out what to do for your son? Is it based on weight and the amount of carbs? Do you think that the pharmacist where I buy the insulin for him will tell him how to do it? As you can see I'm more afraid for him than I am for myself. He's not LCing, he's such a picky eater and he doesn't like a lot of veggies.

Thank you so much for the info. It seems like I'm asking the same questions over and over again, but I need to understand this, so thanks.
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  #65   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:20
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
Default

If you need help with insulin, I would suggest Bernstein's book over a pharmacist. Pharmacists are under the assumption that you have a doctor "controlling" your diabetes. That's is a laughable idea in and of itself. Bernstein talks about injecting insulin into muscle. I've not encountered one diabetic who does that and it could possibly be dangerous. Insulin was made to be injected into fat. Just pinch some fat on the stomach or thigh and pop the needle. It doesn't hurt at all because the needles are tiny. I use BD 1/3 cc, short-needle, syringes with 1/2 unit markers.

Sorry to hear about your sons, ladies.
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  #66   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:20
pamlynn's Avatar
pamlynn pamlynn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 639
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 248.4/245.4/170 Female 5' 6 "
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Michigan
Default

[
Quote:
QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcarbUgh
Lantus is one of the more expensive insulins and not OTC in the US. The OTC form of long-acting insulin is called NPH and is about $20 at Walmart sold under the brand Relion. It is the same as Novalin N. It is not as flat as Lantus and has a peak. I take N at night for Dawn Phenomenon. It works better than Lantus in that regard.

If you have high fasting BGs, then Lantus or NPH would be the way to go. NPH has a shorter duration of action. It mostly stops working after 8 hours. Depending on the dosage, Lantus lasts 24 hours in higher doses.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you!!! This is just the info I need. You may have answered this already, but do you take Lantus at a higher dose to last 24 hours PLUS the Novalin N? It is so good to know these insulins are available OTC. Somehow my son and I will just have to learn how to use them.
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  #67   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:23
pamlynn's Avatar
pamlynn pamlynn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 639
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 248.4/245.4/170 Female 5' 6 "
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcarbUgh
If you need help with insulin, I would suggest Bernstein's book over a pharmacist. Pharmacists are under the assumption that you have a doctor "controlling" your diabetes. That's is a laughable idea in and of itself. Bernstein talks about injecting insulin into muscle. I've not encountered one diabetic who does that and it could possibly be dangerous. Insulin was made to be injected into fat. Just pinch some fat on the stomach or thigh and pop the needle. It doesn't hurt at all because the needles are tiny. I use BD 1/3 cc, short-needle, syringes with 1/2 unit markers.

Sorry to hear about your sons, ladies.

I will get the book this weekend, if it is in stock and have my son read it also. He loves to read so he'll do it.
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  #68   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:29
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
Default

No, I take a small dose of Lantus for my basal because I'm a type 1 and make no insulin. I'm more sensitive to it. I take N at around 10:30 p.m. to zap my DP. You can't buy Lantus OTC here. Without a prescription, you will need to order some from a Canadian pharmacy. Lantus would be the first thing to try if you can possibly get it because N does have a peak. You can time it to your meals however. I use N because it was one of the only long-acting insulins available when I was DXed. There was no Lantus at that time, and I learned how to work with the peak. If you are going to use N, you need to start small, 5 units and work your way up with 1 unit at a time and test, test, test to see how it affects you.

I hate to say this, but your son won't benefit as much until he controls his eating. Diabetics can't eat without consequences. He will have to understand the rises in his BG and how insulin will work on those before he can achieve control. If he doesn't count carbs, there is no way to control his sugars.

I hope this has been helpful.
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  #69   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:52
pamlynn's Avatar
pamlynn pamlynn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 639
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 248.4/245.4/170 Female 5' 6 "
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Michigan
Default

I LOVE this place!! Okay is it Dr. Bersteins Diabetes Solution that will teach me how to use Insulin? This might be my last question - until I think of another one, lol Hope I can buy it. You guys just wait, I'm gonna come back on Monday SO SMART.
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  #70   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 13:56
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
Default

If you can't find it a a bookstore, look for "Think Like a Pancreas" or "Using Insulin."

Here's a "How to Give an Insulin Injection" video:

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to...sulin-injection
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  #71   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 14:21
MizKitty's Avatar
MizKitty MizKitty is offline
95% Sugar Free!
Posts: 7,010
 
Plan: Very high fat LC/HCG
Stats: 310/155.4/159 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 102%
Location: Missouri
Default

Quote:
Those things you mentioned are just what I'm trying to avoid with my son. He's only had one bad episode where his sugar went so high that his toes on both feet curled up and he could hardly walk. How did you figure out what to do for your son? Is it based on weight and the amount of carbs? Do you think that the pharmacist where I buy the insulin for him will tell him how to do it?


I agree, get him Bernstein's book (Amazon if you can't find it locally)... I also agree he's not going to benefit much until he changes his eating... wouldn't he rather eat low carb than go on insulin?
Can you talk him into trying Bernstein's eating plan (6-12-12) for a week (just to make mom happy?) that's probably long enough for him to see his BG plummet and actually start to feel better.

I hate to think he's going to have to hit bottom before he'll change his diet to save himself, but I guess that's the road most of us type II's end up taking. I know I sure did, sadly.

I knew how to help my son because I'd been on Lantus first for a year, so was very familiar with how to inject it and how to adjust the dosage. So just go on it yourself, first.

I injected in the tummy, once a day, bedtime. The needle is so small, it's not big enough to stimulate nerve endings, so you don't even feel it.

Once you get used to it yourself, you'll be over the apprehension and you'll know how to help your son. He'll do the same as you, start with the minimal dose, like 10 units, and gradually increase it.
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  #72   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 14:34
MizKitty's Avatar
MizKitty MizKitty is offline
95% Sugar Free!
Posts: 7,010
 
Plan: Very high fat LC/HCG
Stats: 310/155.4/159 Female 67 inches
BF:
Progress: 102%
Location: Missouri
Default

BTW, Lantus is easy because of the pen syringe. I've never used vials or had to learn how to draw insulin from a vial with a regular syringe.
If you/son use Lantus, there's a "how to" video on their website.

The diabetes educator who taught me to use it, had me wipe a spot of my tummy and the end of the needle with an alcohol swab.
Dial "1" unit on the pen and push the plunger button to make sure a drop of insulin came through the needle so you knew the needle was working, not clogged,
then dial up the number of units you want to inject.
Stick it in your stomach in a quick motion (no need to pinch skin on the stomach, unless you're skeletal! lol)
Then push the plunger button, leaving the needle in the skin for about 10 or 15 seconds to give the insulin time to go in.
Remove the needle, put the cap back on the pen - you're done.
The box the needles comes in says to use a fresh needle every time, but I don't know anyone who does that. (I think that advice is more about selling expensive needles.) I re-used the same needle until it started to dull (which you could tell because it wouldn't be quite so painless anymore), maybe 8-10 times each.

Here's a link to the pen instruction video http://www.opticlik.com/opticlik_video.aspx
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  #73   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 15:15
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
Default

I tend to hit veins and bleed more if I don't pinch. You can buy any insulin in a pen, but it is more expensive.
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  #74   ^
Old Thu, Jul-24-08, 18:10
RobLL RobLL is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,648
 
Plan: generalized low carb
Stats: 205/180/185 Male 67
BF:31%/14?%/12%
Progress: 125%
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Pamlynn - I do not want to discourage you from being the person on this site, but it really is your son who needs to be here or on another site. I say this because you need to steel yourself that this is his challenge more than yours. It is great having a mother help, but it is not the mother who needs to feel responsible for what happens. I am an older person, and my kids have have 'issues', but they have to be the ones to respond to them, I can only help, and that if they are willing.
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  #75   ^
Old Fri, Jul-25-08, 08:01
pamlynn's Avatar
pamlynn pamlynn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 639
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 248.4/245.4/170 Female 5' 6 "
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Michigan
Default

My son works anywhere from 60 to 70 hours a week in a city 35 miles away. So as his Mom, I'm on a fact finding mission - I need the info for myself as well as to pass on to him. I plan to buy books to help both of us learn about how to use insulin.

I don't think I've ever implied that he's resistant to doing what he can to help himself. Because of a medication he's been taking, he gained a lot of weight which brought on his diabetes. He has worked to take off about 30 lbs. He, as well as most people in my family, are genetically pre-disposed to come down w/this disease. All of us watched my sister deal with this terrible disease which in the end took her life. So we all - my brothers, neices, nephews, cousins, and two sons, are well aware of what it can do. Unfortunately, as we all know education is sorely lacking from doctors, and even those who call themselves diabetes educators. His issues with his insurance and work schedule is what's pushing me to find out as much as I can here from the people who have the best knowledge. So this is what I'm doing as a mother - helping him as I help myself.

Isn't that we do on this forum, give and receive information and share it with others - both on and outside of this forum. The information I get here is from those who have experienced what we are about to go through and I consider you all by far the best source of info. If you all don't know something, I'm directed to other resources.

I thank you all for helping us out.
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