Great- thank you, Amanda! Unfortunately Amazon.com lists that book at $25!! A bit steep for me but I will hunt around the internet to find a cheaper version.

You might want to check out the site "abebooks". They have out-of-print books and more unusual titles.

I hope you manage to find a cheaper copy, but, on the other hand, as he is a good writer and has a very valuable message, I am hoping that all the people who have already bought the book are hanging on to theirs because they have been convinced by the clarity of his delivery that what he says is right.

It would be - almost - worth $25 in my humble opinion, but I'm sure, if you flagged it on ebay, that you might get a cheaper copy.

Have you read his website, Second Opinions?

Here's the link:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/

amanda

also check ebay. i have all three books. EFGT is fine. the next hasn't chaged just elaborated. you can probably get the original for a buck. if you need research, you can go to his website. that should keep you busy for a while.

I noticed that Groves is a big advocate for cream. Is ultra-past. cream acceptable on his plan? It's the only kind I can find.

I don't rightly know what "ultra-pasteurized" means, to be honest. If it is the same as what we Brits called "UHT" cream or milk, i.e. it has been processed at Ultra High Temperatures and will keep out of a refrigerator when still unopened, then I would say you can use it, but be aware that it is not very healthy... Even less healthy than regular pasteurized dairy products, I'm afraid. Can you get hold of mascarpone? I sometimes use that and mix it with regular whipping cream to make a creamy mixture which has the consistency of double cream (heavy cream, I think is what the Americans call it).

Otherwise, try to get into cheese in a big way!!! Or avocadoes and streaky bacon. Cook everything you can in butter, or beef fat, or bacon fat, that will also up your meals' fat content.

Yes Ultra pasteurized is the same as UHT.

But possibly healthier than the other YouTube - Hydrogenated oils/ trans fats - the Alfie Elmlea Challenge long life alternative, ELMLEA

I would also suggest you try coconut oil as a solid fat and MCT oil for salad dressings.
Try a pot first, then consider bulk buying it If you want a cheaper alternative shops that serve the Indian/Pakistan communities often have a very cheap (non organic) version that is fine for cooking with.

unfortunately, ultrapasturized is the only thing available in many areas. and really, i don't know if it's any worse than just plain pasturized which is still treated w high temp.

the more local commercial dairy may have a pasturized version that is not ultra. that is the case where i live.
otherwise i focus on the ones from cows not given growth hormones.

I did read one of his book's (Groves) and have visited his website before. For some reason I thought his diet excluded grains (specifically gluten grains) which would eliminate most beers....

I did search his website, but only found information on alcohol in general and not beer.

Can anyone clarify?

I can!!! Groves doesn't "outlaw" grains, although he says he doesn't eat them himself. He lists meal plans in "Natural Health and Weight Loss" that allow a slice of bread with a fried breakfast, for example.

The Brit who is anti-wheat is Dr John Briffa as he has had a lot of patients in his practice who have problems with wheat. He wouldn't recommend wheat in his LC plans.

Groves doesn't recommend beer because of its relatively high sugar content. Apparently, maltose, the sugar in beer, is a very fast-acting sugar, too. But I have never read anything by him about the need to give up beer because of the gluten content.

amanda

IIRC Barry Groves is anti-whole grains. When he eats bread (and he does, I think just rarely though) it is white bread.

I only joined this site yesterday and found this thread kinda by accident. I have spent today reading through the second-opinion.co.uk website and have just ordered "Trick and Treat"
All I can say is THANK YOU for the referral, if left to my own devices, Barry Groves plan is the one I would follow. I tend to lean towards much fattier foods and I cannot give up my beer (Hahn Super dry too, gotta love Australia!) and red wine.
I've managed to lose 5 kilos s l o w l y doing a high protein, low carb, low fat plan, but it has been hell! I miss my wine and butter and cheese

Anyhoo, thanks again. I look forward to seeing how my weight loss goes on this new program.

Hi RedM72,

If you want to follow the Barry Groves' plan, you really should also get yourself his book, "Natural Health and Weight Loss", which gives more information and explains more of the science behind the low-carb/high-fat way of eating. "Trick and Treat" is a GREAT book, but it is more of a general rant against the medical establishment than specifically just about the LC/HF WOE.

From my own experience, though, I would make sure that you keep your beer intake to a minimum as that tended to generally stall me or result in a half-kilo weight gain a couple of days after a beer-fest. Or stick to wine as your poison of choice. The best thing would be to keep a journal - either here or just in a notebook - where you note what you eat and drink and what effect that has on the scale. A fellow Australian who wrote a post above lost weight whilst still drinking beer, but for me that didn't work. Your mileage may vary, so you need to monitor closely what works for you and what doesn't.

All the best, Barry Rocks!!!

amanda

It took me 14 months to lose almost 50lbs on Atkins back in 2004-06. I managed to maintain that loss for 18 months on 20-30 grams of carbs. If I ate more than that I would gain.

After gaining it back I read Natural Health & Weight loss and lost the same amount of weight in 5.5 months by keeping my carbs under 20 and eating 75-80% fat.

I had to eliminate all carbs though, to lose these last 40lbs.. and I did that in 8 months.

So, Barry Groves and then Zero Carbs got me to lose 80lbs (actually 90 because I gained 10lbs back before I went ZC) faster than it took me to lose 49 on Atkins.

Barry recommends more carbs than Atkins, but I knew from experience that I just cannot tolerate carbs at all.. and by replacing them with saturated fats was the ticket for me.

My MIL read the book, and she just added more SAT FATS to her high carb diet (like loads of butter and sour cream on her baked potato) and ended up gaining 12lbs in a few weeks. She completely missed the point of the book...

Thanks Amanda, I'll track that one down too, as I have decided to do a research project based on the pharmaceutical companies' stronghold on the medical establishment though, I'm still looking forward to reading Trick and Treat.



I'm not a huge beer drinker anyway, but I love to have a couple on a really hot afternoon (it was 40 degress C here yesterday!!). It's my glass of red with dinner that I find the hardest to give up



I use a website called calorieking.com.au to record my food, not that I'm interested in counting calories so much, but it has an excellent facility where it records grams of macronutrients in foods and gives your daily total as a percentage, very handy. Plus being Australian it has all of our foods listed on it.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post, I appreciate the advice and look forward to seeing how this WOE works for me

Emma.

Hi Margot,

Your achievement is amazing! Thanks for the tips, I'm starting with 75g carbs as my limit - approx 15% of my daily intake, 20% protein and 65% fat, I'll see how the scales like that and adjust accordingly if I need to. I can't tell you how excited I am about leaving the fat on my bacon in the morning!!

You made me laugh with the comment about your MIL, I saw people do that when I was doing Atkins years ago. They were like "Oh! Saturated fat is ok huh... whoopee!" But then kept on with potatoes and bread and blamed Atkins when they ballooned up!