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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Apr-13-05, 23:02
TwoCats TwoCats is offline
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Posts: 90
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 157/153/150 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: California
Default More thyroid thoughts

Hi Sue and Holly and everyone!

I haven't been doing CAD for the past several days, so I hope it's okay that I still post here - I've grown kind of fond of everyone! I do feel more balanced and my heart palpitations have stopped, thank goodness. I changed my plan to modified paleo on my profile, as that pretty much describes the food choices I have been making ever since I started healing myself. However, I will try CAD again once I feel my body can handle it. And I have been trying to eat two or three meals a day as opposed to grazing all day long, which I think is a big part of why CAD works so well for me.

I'm not a doctor, but my intuition tells me that my body wouldn't be attacking its own gland unless it was really stressed by something. I know I have a genetic predisposition towards this (my sister got the exact same thing), but I have a strong belief that my body can and will heal itself if I find out what I need to do to support that. I defintely saw my doctor and endo regularly while I was hyper and hypo, and I had their blessing for my drug-free way (well, the endo couldn't quite bring himself to approve, but he finally got on board when my levels normalized.) So far so good! Maybe if I had developed Hashi's first instead of Graves' I wouldn't be so gung-ho on this - taking supplemental hormones to replace your own doesn't seem unhealthy. But the options for GD were to take anti-thyroid drugs (which can suppress your immune system and be toxic to your liver), do surgery to remove your thyroid gland, or take radioactive iodine to kill your thyroid gland. I would have taken the drugs if my body hadn't responded so well to all my natural healing stuff, but I was not excited by the idea of killing off a body part that is so essential to health and then depending on doctors to medicate me for the rest of my life. Especially as I view my immune system confusion as the root of the problem, and the thyroid gland a victim in this disease.

Also, I felt like getting GD was just the tip of the iceberg for me healthwise. I'm hoping to avoid getting more autoimmune diseases by healing my immune system now. Not to sound too spiritual, but I feel like this was God giving me a huge wake-up call.

I know this way isn't for everyone. My brother and sister, after spending time with me last summer, said they thought it was amazing that I have healed myself this way, but they wouldn't have the willpower to give up wheat, sugar, alcohol, dairy, etc. I totally respect that, and in truth I still struggle with giving up dairy, my fav. Luckily for all of us, there are so many options in this modern world of ours!

Holly, I know your appointment with your endo was today - how did it go? I hope you were successful in your quest to up your dosage.

Take care all!

--TwoCats (Gretchen)
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Apr-14-05, 07:02
way2goal's Avatar
way2goal way2goal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 863
 
Plan: Atkins induction
Stats: 185/184/150 Female 5ft4in
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: just outside Boston, MA
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Hi TwoCats...your discussion about stress and onset of Hashis (and other immune disorders) is very interesting. Mine appeared post partum, and I think that too can be considered a STRESS! I wish I knew more about self-healing. Are you reading books about this? I'd be interested in the titles if you've found any that are particularly helpful.

My endo visit isn't until NEXT Thurs (but I wish it was today!). I've been SO good on CAD for this whole last week, was at 165.5 yesterday, then today I get on and it's back up to 167.5. VEERY frustrating! And I've also been exercising ALOT.. so that is definitely a healing thing and makes me feel much better, despite being tired still.

I think you've got a great head on your shoulders; I like your attitude and that you dont' take 'no' for an answer. Seems like alot of healing is inside us, and not just medical/herbal. I hope to continue to learn alot from you.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Apr-15-05, 11:39
Sueoncalp Sueoncalp is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 334
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: 140/125/120 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
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Holly, I've also been exercising and I look much more toned now. I think one strengthens and builds muscle with exercise. Usually when one just begins to exercise again after a long hiatus, one puts on 2 lbs of water weight and whatever. It goes again after a week or two.

Gretchen, I had absolutely no idea that Graves disease offered such horrible ways to "cure" it. Wow! No wonder you looked for alternate means. I think I might have too. It takes a lot of courage though. Happy you're feeling a bit better now. It could be that you need to eat a little more regularly with your situation.

Just a thought though. Because I had a huge goiter (didn't even notice for years!), I'm on suppressive doses of thyroid meds - so my thyroid is not doing any work....it's like it is dead anyway, BUT perhaps it is preserving its lifetime and the goiter is now practically gone. If I needed to, I could rely on my thyroid to kick back in again for a few years or so, before it died completely anyway. I know someone whose thyroid died completely and he was only known case to have survived something like that. He is not obese or anything either. He basically was put on thyroid meds. He is old now and recently was discovered to be severely anemic.

Please do check back and let us know how you are. God bless you!
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Apr-15-05, 21:49
TwoCats TwoCats is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 90
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 157/153/150 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: California
Default

Hi you two!

I was just rereading "Life Without Bread" last night, which is a great low carb book if you haven't checked it out yet. One of the authors is a doctor who has been treating his patients with low carb diets since the 1950's, so he has all this data to actually back up the health claims of low carb diets. And I came across this part on immune reactions when people first start low-carbing: They are writing about how the immune system gets stimulated when people adopt a low carb diet, which is generally good since that means they suffer less from colds and infections. "But stimulation of the immune system can also be a problem. It is possible that the immune system will mount an inadverntent attack on the body's own tissue... The overall benefit to the tissues and organs on a low-carb diet will help most people, even those with autoimmune diseases. We know of a few people with autoimmune diseases who have had great success with the diet, but we do not have specific data from large population groups."

I thought that was so interesting, as I developed Graves' disease during a very stressful fall that followed the summer when I first tried CAD! I wonder if the diet did stimulate my immune system. I guess I'll never really know, but what I do know is that I feel much better when I don't eat lots of carbs, even if I do have thyroid disease! In another part of the book, they say that once the immune system becomes sensitized to something, it never forgets. Sigh.

Holly, I think pregnancy definitely counts as a stressful experience for your body! I think it's very common to develop thyroid problems in respose to pregnancy. And I seem to remember that people in your situation are more likely to go into remission than those of us who get it in a non-pregnant time. I do have lots of books about health, nutrition, and thyroid disease - is there a specific area that you are interested in out of those three? I'd be happy to tell you the ones that I liked the most. And I do remember you saying your appt. was on 4/20 - I was thinking that was the date already! Oops - vacation brain.

And Sue, I know the antibodies do continue to attack the thyroid gland in active Hashi's, so they might kill it off in your case, but I can't help feeling that it's good that you still have your gland as opposed to doing surgery or RAI. That way if you were to heal, you would still have your thyroid. I always feel like the medications are not irreversible, and thus are preferable. That is, unless you just can't take it any longer, like my sister, who didn't want to deal with all the hassle.

OK - I wish you both the best! I know that feeling of exercising and then seeing a weight gain the following day. It seems like that happens to me when I exercise really strenuously, but not if I just go for walks and do yoga. I tell myself that I'm putting on muscle so it's okay.

Take care! --Gretchen
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Apr-18-05, 20:22
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way2goal way2goal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 863
 
Plan: Atkins induction
Stats: 185/184/150 Female 5ft4in
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: just outside Boston, MA
Default

Hi Ladies..just checking in. Not doing very well diet wise; pretty much ate 1/2box of honey nut cheerios today. I'm PRAYING that my endo visit day after tomorrow gives me a new dose, as I'm on the viscious cycle of not sleeping well, feeling tired all day, wanting carbs to comfort me, etc...I HATE this cycle, and it's SO typical of when my dose isn't right.

I have been exercising very well for the last few weeks, so I know that's a good thing, but I'm disappointed in my lack of commitment to CAD.

I will once again pick myself up and try to stick to it again; I know what I need to eat, and I know that I feel best when I stick to it. Alot of stresses right now make it hard to focus on my diet...but I know I'd be ecstatic if I actually lost the 20 that I need to.

I'd love to have you all keep me accountable for the next few weeks (if you dont' mind!)....I'll start in tomorrow. THANKS!

I hope you all have a good (CAD) week!!!
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Apr-19-05, 22:38
Sueoncalp Sueoncalp is offline
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Posts: 334
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: 140/125/120 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
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Gretchen - I think my autoimmune could possibly have been triggered by low-carbing. I mean it is possible, when I think of the time frame, however, how will one ever know? I know that low-carbing is recommended for folks with Hashimoto's or hypothyroidism - ironically! Interesting thought, but I sure hope my beloved low-carbing was not the cause.

Way2goal - stress and dieting don't seem to go well together. My thoughts of weight loss go out the window, until the time is right again. You'll find it easier to do things properly once the stress abates. Sorry things are that way right now. Life is full of those ups and downs - especially when we're older and have major responsibilities. Still, with age come a lot of other perks too - maybe not the best body, but other perks. I appreciate life and the beauty of nature far more than I used to in my youth and my perfectionism about my looks has totally relaxed and I wonder if that isn't half my problem for not getting these last few pounds off. I'm just too comfortable and I don't like depriving myself. My sons asks me at the end of the day if I am still hungry. Usually I reply, "No." Then, he says, "You won't lose weight!" Bummer! He has been a positive influence though with his beautiful, youthful body always doing push ups and sit ups and chin ups and weights. I am now doing sit ups and push ups too. I could not even do one push up a while back! I love my exercise. It is the one thing I seem to be able to do consistently.

Yep, if I exercise strenuously, Gretchen - 2 lb gain the next day.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-05, 19:43
Sueoncalp Sueoncalp is offline
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Posts: 334
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: 140/125/120 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
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I found some of my photographs pre low-carb and it looks like I had the goiter already just as large (slow growing), so it was probably stress-induced in my case.


Here is a neat linK: http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/shamesautoimm.htm
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-05, 22:20
TwoCats TwoCats is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 90
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 157/153/150 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: California
Default

Hi Sue and Holly,

Just checking in - I hope you two are doing well. Holly, I hope you don't get too down on yourself! I could not stop slowly gaining weight when I was hypo, so if that is what's going on with you, it's totally understandable. I think your appointment was today - did it go well? Let Sue and me know when you get a chance.

I was reading about carb cycling on a really long thread in tips and stalls, and someone wrote something about how keeping your carbs really low for a long time can slow your metabolism and depress your thyroid. That seems obvious, but all of a sudden it made sense to me and explained my heart palpitations when I was being diligent about following CAD. Perhaps dieting this time slowed my thyroid so I was back in the borderline hypo region, and then I started feeling the heart palps again.

I might give CAD a try again, and just eat a generous amount of carbs for dinner. I know that seems counterintuitive, but it might help me from going too low carb and still allow me to enjoy the freedom from cravings, etc., that CAD gives us. If you remember my initial intro on this forum, I mentioned how CAD worked the longest for me when I indulged in occasionaly carb fests for dinner. I know it's not advised, and I don't want to discourage you two from balancing your rm's. I'll let you know if it works for me.

Take care and be well both of you! --Gretchen
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Apr-20-05, 22:29
Sueoncalp Sueoncalp is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 334
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: 140/125/120 Female 63 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Default

Heart palpitations can also be part of hypothyroidism? I guess, probably. I know it is also definitely part of hyperthyroidism. If I'm going hyper (usually too much T3), I get heart palpitations. Also, if you're drinking caffeine or having other stimulants, this can happen.

Gretchen that sounds like a good plan. I read somewhere that if one goes very low-carb - I'm talking 20 grams and less - it makes it very difficult for the body to convert T4 to T3 - and thus, the metabolism slows right down = hypothyroidism.

Take care, you guys! Keep in touch, Gretchen!
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Apr-21-05, 08:03
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way2goal way2goal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 863
 
Plan: Atkins induction
Stats: 185/184/150 Female 5ft4in
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: just outside Boston, MA
Default

Hi Ladies...have to say, I'm always very happy to check in here with you; I really appreciate the support!

My appt went well...the Dr (first time I met him) is VERY old and bent over like a candy cane, but he's apparently very respected and a great endo. He's very conservative, but he explains things clearly. He wasn't willing to just UP my dose, even though my TSH was 2.71, since he said my free T4 was high, meaning my body has enough of it available to use if necessary, and adding more T4 won't change that. He took blood and ordered more tests..so, I'll know more next week.

But he did give me a polite, mini lecture...in that he said we are TOO focused on numbers as a society. At a weight of 167 (height 5'4"), he said "you are not OBESE"..and I agreed, even though I'm not happy at this weight. He said "when you walked in, I thought what a nice proportionate woman you were"..so, in other words, maybe I SHOULD be grateful that I am generally healthy, and by eating sensibly and working out, I'm doing all the right things for my body..even if IT doesn't want to weigh 150. And I DO have to say, SO much of our image is self-imposed, in other words, on the days when I feel skinnier (like I lost 2 lbs overnight or something...) I put on a great outfit and go out with my head held high,THAT's when I get alot compliments..yes, I get them if I actually DID lose 10 lbs, but I get just as many with a good attitude too (and that's FREE!!!).

So, it did give me something to think about. I do secretly hope something is outta whack so there will be a reason to change my course of medicine, hoping that the next 'combo' may be the right one..but for now, I'll stick to CAD, where it sounds like we ALL feel better, and keep up w/my exercise and try to let the stress subside so that I can get some good night's sleep (as that is my BIGGEST obstacle to eating well--being TIRED!)

I hope you all have a good day; my CAD day was good yesterday..a little carb heavy on the RM (salmon, salad, green beans, corn bread and a banana w/pnut butter).
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Apr-21-05, 20:30
TwoCats TwoCats is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 90
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 157/153/150 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: California
Default

Hi Holly and Sue!

Holly, I'm wondering how your free T3 is. Do you think it's possible that you might have enough FT4 but that you're not converting it well to T3 when you need it? I know that some people aren't good converters, and they're the ones who like Armour or other products that have some T3 in there too. Just a thought.

Also, I really related to your story about how when you feel good about yourself, that's when you get compliments and feel you look your best too. So true! It's really about feeling our best. And your dinner sounds yummy!

Sue, I got heart palps both when I was hyper and hypo. I didn't realize at first that I had switched to hypo because I just assumed that the palps were a hyper symptom again - even though I was freezing cold and gaining weight and noticing lots of hair falling out every morning, LOL! I guess that's how my body is sensitive.

Take care both of you! I almost ate CAD today, except that I had macadamia nuts at lunch - I'm nuts about nuts. I can easily eat 1000 calories without much thought if I'm not careful - yikes!

--Gretchen
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Apr-25-05, 08:28
way2goal's Avatar
way2goal way2goal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 863
 
Plan: Atkins induction
Stats: 185/184/150 Female 5ft4in
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: just outside Boston, MA
Default

thought I'd update on THRYOID front; had my appt Wed..VERY disappointed. He's like 85 yrs old, bent over like a candy cane..and apparently VERY conservative. He told me that he didn't think I should be lifting weights if my goal was to lose weight (didn't quite get that connection???)...and when I said that I only want to lose 15-20 (to get back to 150), he said QUOTE "that'll never happen..you'll never weigh 150". OK, so maybe my body will fight with all it's might to stay in 160's even, but why can't these dr's have a "let's see what we can do for you" attitude? I almost started to cry. I should be getting all my labs back on thursday; I'll look at all T4/T3/TSH values; but I did already make appt with a different Endo 2 weeks from today....I really need an advocate, not an archrival!

and to top all this off..I'm now back up to 170, after being given a new Rx for BC, gained 4-5lbs in last 2 weeks. So, the reality is that CAD really isn't working any miracles for me. I'm very discouraged and not sure what to do from here.

sorry for the rant...I feel better typing all this; I DO hope all of you are doing ok....and you do give me hope that if I hang in there..I might have some success; just having trouble seeing the road through the fog right now.
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, May-01-05, 22:24
TwoCats TwoCats is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 90
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 157/153/150 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: California
Default

Hi Holly,

Your endo sure doesn't sound very supportive. Mine was also quite elderly and had no interest in all the natural healing stuff I was doing. I expected it, but still. However, when I finally went in with normal thyroid levels he became a believer and it was so gratifying! We had a long talk about the healing power of prayer, if you can believe it. Before that I just figured I knew best and I used him as a resource. It was more to tell my family that I was seeing an endo so they wouldn't worry about me trying to heal myself naturally.

I am sorry to hear that CAD isn't helping you lose weight. I think our thyroid hormones are just incredibly powerful and it's really really hard to diet when they're low. The problem is that dieting often lowers your metabolism, and thus makes your efforts backfire. I think this is what happened to me when I tried CAD this time - my heart palps were from lowering my metabolism (ie, thyroid levels), so I stopped dieting and just upped my food. I figured if I wasn't going to lose weight, I might as well eat more food and enjoy myself! At least I haven't gained any - I'm still averaging my weight and I'm still at 155 this week.

I've been reading about carb cyling on another forum here, and thinking about how it might work. The idea is that you eat pretty low carb for a few days to lose weight, but when your weight loss stalls that means you need to up your food intake to increase your metabolism. So then you switch to higher-carb days for a while. Then you go back to lower-carb days and you keep cycling through it. I was thinking that this might work on CAD if I tried adjusting my rm to be higher in carb or lower in carb as I needed. I'll let you guys know if I have any luck with it!

Take care! Don't give up hope. Remember, the most important thing is to be healthy, and hopefully weight loss can come naturally from having optimal thyroid levels. I think it's good that you're going to try a different endo. You need someone who will listen and help you feel good and get healthy. That's ridiculous about how he told you not to lift weights! He's clueless. Also, what's BC?

--Gretchen
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, May-05-05, 08:30
way2goal's Avatar
way2goal way2goal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 863
 
Plan: Atkins induction
Stats: 185/184/150 Female 5ft4in
BF:
Progress: 3%
Location: just outside Boston, MA
Default Hi twocats!

Hi Gretchen,

Have been busy, so I haven't posted here in a while. I will be interested in your carb cycling results; I am also a believer that I really can't restrict my carbs completely since it's bad for hypos and it's just not realisitic. Please let me know how you feel while cycling, and if you come up with a good cycling routine, post it and I'll give it a try too.

yes, my endo had a bad attitude, and as it turns out, a speciality in "male infertility and ED"..so, he's not for me. I did have some additional labs done that show adrenal fatigue (ie, high cortisol and low DHEA)...plus my Free T3 number was 114 in a range of 80-150. so, I go see a new 'holistic' endo on the 16th, and my referral that sees her loves her. Hoping she'll prescribe some T3 and help me fix the low DHEA.

Hope all else is well with you; keep in touch!!
Holly

ps. BC=birth control (I think others call it BCP_
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, May-10-05, 21:22
TwoCats TwoCats is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 90
 
Plan: CAD
Stats: 157/153/150 Female 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: California
Default

Hi Holly and Sue,

I have been feeling nice and stable thyroid-wise, and my weight has been really stable for a long time, until I just suddenly gained five pounds a week ago. Yikes! I'm now up at 158, but I don't think I'll update my stats yet - it's too depressing. So obviously my carb cycling wasn't the most successful thing... I am noticing that I started snacking and ended up eating several times a day. One thing I think that is really good for me about CAD is only eating two or three times a day - it takes some discipline but I think it gives my body a break from digesting and processing all day long. I'll be checking my thyroid levels in another week or two, so it will be interesting to see if I am in the normal range - I feel like I am.

Holly, I think I read in another post that you were interviewing for a teaching job. I didn't realize that you were a teacher too. I have been in the opposite situation - hiring new teachers for next year (I'm chair of our department, so I am in charge of that), and I finally finished a couple weeks ago. I hope your interviews have been going well and that you find a school you really like. What do you teach?

Take care both of you. --Gretchen
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