Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > CAD/CALP
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Mon, Aug-16-04, 13:59
GrlyGrl's Avatar
GrlyGrl GrlyGrl is offline
SanePsychoSuprGodess
Posts: 496
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 205/191/115 Female 5' 1"
BF:46%/41%/20%
Progress: 16%
Location: Chicago suburbs, IL
Default Switching form Atkins -- carbs per meal confusion...

I apologize if this is a repeat question. I have read the book, tried searching this forum, gone to the Hellers' site and read the stickies -- I really have tried to find the answer -- what I have found was worded in a confusing way though.

Is the rule of thumb for each Complimentary Meals to eat 4 or fewer net carbs? or total carbs? or does this "4 carbs" phrase I have seen frequently mean that you should not eat any food with more than 4 carbs per serving at a CM, with no specific limit of total/net carbs per CM?

Thank you in advance for your help!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Mon, Aug-16-04, 17:38
Redwood Redwood is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: // Female average
BF:
Progress:
Location: Central CA Coast Range
Cool Tale of Two Takes

From my interpretation of the Heller's CALP it isn't how much total carbohydrate in grams but how your body utilizes that food. You can eat a lot more total carbs on the Heller diet than the Atkins which requires counting and measuring.

The Hellers have you eat an equal amount of whatever you care for in a meal of half high protein / high fat and half of low carb vegetables (more vegetables than high protein / high fat if desired). You can eat as many as you want of these meals in a day.

Once a day you can include a high carb portion to your meal. This type of meal eaten anytime during the day is one quarter high protein / high fat, one quarter of low carb vegetables (approx. under 12g carb per 1/2 cup type), one quarter a mainly lettuce salad (any type) and one quarter anything high carb (over 12g carb per 1/2 cup).

You are advised to not drink alcohol on the Heller diet and only one cup of coffee or tea. They are on the Atkins because they absorbed through the large intestines and feed you by a method that makes storage in fat cells less likely. The Hellers feed you in this manner too by mixing foods to make the acid digestion needs of the protein interfere with the alkaline digestion environment of starches. Less digestion happens early to mixed foods and more makes it to the large intestine.

If you drink or are a hard core caffeine addict you may have to do the math and measure of the Atkins. If not the Heller diet, especially with organic and garden fresh veggies, is probably easier to live on.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Tue, Aug-17-04, 22:17
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
Default

They don't follow the "net carb" theory, so you consider total carbs when selecting foods. The generally-accepted rule-of-thumb for CM foods is 4 grams of carbs per average-sized serving. My cm's were usually a normal-sized serving of meat and enough lc veggies to feel satisfied.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Wed, Aug-18-04, 07:34
Dianee's Avatar
Dianee Dianee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,341
 
Plan: CAD/CALP
Stats: 233/192/145 Female 62"
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Idaho
Default

Hi

I haven't posted to the CAD section for awhile. At the begining of summer I switched from CAD to the IR diet. I had done CAD for over 3 years.

GrlyGrl, Welcome to CAD. CAD is such a livable program and I think you will find it very easy to stick with. In answer to your question about the carbs, it should be a total of 4 carbs per CM meal. The Heller's do not count net carbs. Make your CM's pretty simple. Just make it protein and veggies. That way there you know you won't go wrong. Also in your book is a list of CM friendly foods. The rule of thumb here is if it isn't on the list just assume that you can't eat it. Good luck and if you have any other questions just ask them.

Redwood, You are not allowed to eat more then 4 times a day. You can't eat protein and veggies anytime that you feel like it. You are allowed to have 2 CM's a day, and your RM once a day, plus one snack which should be protein and veggies if you feel that you need one. The RM is not quarters, but should be divided in 3rds. You should always start your meal off with a nice big salad, with your choice of salad dressing, and then have 1/3 protein, 1/3 LC veggies, and 1/3 carbs. The carb can be your choice of anything you want it to be. You can go back for more carbs, but you also have to have more protein and LC veggies in equal amounts. This RM must also be consumed within 60 minutes.

Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Wed, Aug-18-04, 11:40
Redwood Redwood is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: // Female average
BF:
Progress:
Location: Central CA Coast Range
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dianee
Hi
Redwood, You are not allowed to eat more then 4 times a day. You can't eat protein and veggies anytime that you feel like it. You are allowed to have 2 CM's a day, and your RM once a day, plus one snack which should be protein and veggies if you feel that you need one. The RM is not quarters, but should be divided in 3rds. You should always start your meal off with a nice big salad, with your choice of salad dressing, and then have 1/3 protein, 1/3 LC veggies, and 1/3 carbs. The carb can be your choice of anything you want it to be. You can go back for more carbs, but you also have to have more protein and LC veggies in equal amounts. This RM must also be consumed within 60 minutes.


I had forgot to mention the 60 minute rule. CALP is a bit different in that you only have one not two carb meals but you may have a 1/2 [high fat / high protein] and 1/2 veggie meal when you wish. The Heller's do keep changing and modifying with time their program as new research is done. The newer heart friendly book is stricter on high fat and I haven't read the addicted kids one.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Wed, Aug-18-04, 14:02
Dianee's Avatar
Dianee Dianee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,341
 
Plan: CAD/CALP
Stats: 233/192/145 Female 62"
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Idaho
Default

Quote:
I had forgot to mention the 60 minute rule. CALP is a bit different in that you only have one not two carb meals but you may have a 1/2 [high fat / high protein] and 1/2 veggie meal when you wish.


Hi Redwood, I have the CALP book and have read it, but the only mention of eating more then 4 times a day is near the end of the book where the Heller's mentioin eating more often if you are having a hard time getting on track because you are so hungry. They would rather have you eat the protein and the veggies then cave in and have some carbs. Once you are on track you should really not eat more then 4 times a day, 2 CM's, 1 RM and 1 snack. Once you body is in balance you really don't have the urge to eat very often. Let me just add this, if you are doing CALP and are eating several small snacks a day and CALP is working for you, then by all means keep doing what you are doing. Everyone is different.

The only reason I am bringing this up is because there are several new people just starting CAD/CALP and it could be there downfall if they think they can and should eat several times a day.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Wed, Aug-18-04, 14:26
adukart adukart is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/179.8/130 Female 5'4.75"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: ND
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood
one quarter anything high carb (over 12g carb per 1/2 cup).

only one cup of coffee or tea.

I never read these two statements in the either book of CAD or CALP, but I also have the newer version of CAD so it might be stated in the older ones (anyone know?) Anyway my point was that I personally do not follow these two statements and had no problems from them, yet.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-04, 10:25
Redwood Redwood is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: // Female average
BF:
Progress:
Location: Central CA Coast Range
Default

The coffee / tea restriction is in CALP. The over and under 12g per half cup was the division I saw in the lists given after checking the carb grams in an Atkins carb counting book. I use it as a short way to reference the lists but see the lists in the CALP as a more full guideline.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-04, 10:43
adukart adukart is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/179.8/130 Female 5'4.75"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: ND
Default

So what happens if you always have under 12g for the carb portion.

Even the Heller's website says you can drink as much coffee as you like, just without cream:

Quote:
Q: Can I have coffee more than once a day?


A: Black coffee or plain tea (iced or hot) are fine at any time of the day or evening. Make certain to have milk or cream in your coffee or tea no more than once a day or you may trigger cravings (even though you don't feel them at first) and slow or halt your weight loss. Coffee or tea with milk and/or sugar can be consumed at any carbohydrate-rich (Reward) meal.


http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/bev.html
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-04, 12:32
Dianee's Avatar
Dianee Dianee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,341
 
Plan: CAD/CALP
Stats: 233/192/145 Female 62"
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Idaho
Default

Hi Redwood,

I hate to be a dummy here, but I am really confused with the 12grms of carbs issue. I have never read anything like that in either the CAD or the CALP book. Am I missing something or am I not understanding what you are trying to tell us? Could you please tell me where you read this in the CALP book, then maybe I could go and reread that part and understand what you mean.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pain, I just want to undestand the 12 grms of carbs.

Thanks,
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-04, 12:36
potatofree's Avatar
potatofree potatofree is offline
Fully Caffeinated
Posts: 17,245
 
Plan: Back to Atkins
Stats: 298/228/160 Female 5ft9in
BF:?/35/?
Progress: 51%
Default

I'm more confused than ever, myself. There seem to be SO many different sets of "rules"... I guess it's best to pick ONE book and stick to it! <sigh>
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-04, 12:46
adukart adukart is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,308
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 180/179.8/130 Female 5'4.75"
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: ND
Default

On the Heller's site it basically says that the CAD book is sooo old that everyone should be following CALP because the research is newer, to my understanding. From this page: http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com/faqbooks.html

The thing I find funny is that if I never read the CAD book I know I would never totally understand the CALP book!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-04, 15:21
Dianee's Avatar
Dianee Dianee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,341
 
Plan: CAD/CALP
Stats: 233/192/145 Female 62"
BF:
Progress: 47%
Location: Idaho
Default

Actually CAD and CALP are pretty close to the same thing as far as the rules. In the very first CAD book, which is the one I first read, it doesn't mention anything about dividing your plate into 3rds for your RM . All it says is to balance your RM. However later the Heller's revised the CAD book to include this. The CALP book says about the same thing as the new version of CAD, but the CALP book throws in I believe 9 different options, like taking Chromium, exercising, AS, over the counter drugs, etc. I can't remember all of the options because I don't have my book at work. I am still confused about the 12 grms of carbs per 1/2 cup.

Potaofree, I am sure you are getting confused. As long as you follow the basic program, you will be alright. Things really haven't changed, unless the Heller's just came out with a brand new book that I haven't heard about.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Fri, Aug-20-04, 05:54
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Posts: 16,666
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/350.4/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood
The coffee / tea restriction is in CALP. The over and under 12g per half cup was the division I saw in the lists given after checking the carb grams in an Atkins carb counting book. I use it as a short way to reference the lists but see the lists in the CALP as a more full guideline.


I am assuming that the 12g per half cup was not something explicitly stated in CALP but a conclusion Redwood came to after looking up the carb counts for CM allowed veggies. So this rule equates to the 6g per meal for extras in the cheat sheet. Not something explicitly stated in the book but learned by experience.

I think CAD is still very relevent. It explains the science of carb addiction very clearly as well as the diet. Like Adukart, I wouldn't have understood CALP without reading CAD. While CALP tells you to follow the basic plan many, many times, it never clearly tells you what the basic plan is...that's only in CAD, unless they've since revised it. It also doesn't tell you why you shouldn't eat more than four times a day...that's in CAD also. CALP tells you to eat 1/2 protein, 1/2 veggies if you're hungry. Well if you eat more than four times a day, you will be hungry!

I always think of CAD as the diet and CALP as it's refinements to ensure success.

I hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Fri, Aug-20-04, 09:52
Redwood Redwood is offline
New Member
Posts: 8
 
Plan: CALP
Stats: // Female average
BF:
Progress:
Location: Central CA Coast Range
Default

I don't know if it is proper to call science magic but to me CALP and all the things they had no problem allowing were. If you followed the plan you didn't need the restrictions in food because you didn't want to eat much. That was one way you knew when CALP was working because you didn't want much food. I was on the plan with my normally ravenous lean boyfriend and he was the same. A plan that we thought could topple civilization (could this planet make enough protein and expensive fresh veggies to feed us all this way) showed itself to us to maybe be a way to save the planet.

Once we stopped carb. craving at the beginning of the diet (we found it took 3 days) we wished to stay at a much lower food intake than we ever imagined. We wanted only the highest quality foods, garden fresh and organic if possible, but tiny (compared to normal) quantities. The only glitch in our wanting less was occasional carb cravings after a too high percent fat meat and higher percentage carb (like asparagus). The Heller's deal with this in a later book for the healthy heart we dealt with it by eating high fat meats with lower carb veggies (usually salad). At this point it worked so well we wanted very little to eat and I was more than ever addicted to more and more exercise.

All in all I feel it was a very good experience for me, my friend and the planet.
I don't know if it is proper to call science magic but to me CALP and all the things they had no problem allowing were. If you followed the plan you didn't need the restrictions in food because you didn't want to eat much. That was one way you knew when CALP was working because you didn't want much food. I was on the plan with my normally ravenous lean boyfriend and he was the same. A plan that we thought could topple civilization (could this planet make enough protein and expensive fresh veggies to feed us all this way) showed itself to us to maybe be a way to save the planet.

Once we stopped carb. craving at the beginning of the diet (we found it took 3 days) we wished to stay at a much lower food intake than we ever imagined. We wanted only the highest quality foods, garden fresh and organic if possible, but tiny (compared to normal) quantities. The only glitch in our wanting less was occasional carb cravings after a too high percent fat meat and higher percentage carb (like asparagus). The Heller's deal with this in a later book for the healthy heart we dealt with it by eating high fat meats with lower carb veggies (usually salad). At this point it worked so well we wanted very little to eat and I was more than ever addicted to more and more exercise.

All in all I feel it was a very good experience for me, my friend and the planet.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All About Oils (reference material) Signey Paleolithic & Neanderthin 2 Fri, Jun-25-04 05:38
Atkins lawsuit klawrence LC Research/Media 2 Wed, May-28-03 18:08
[BFL] My Challenge Two Workout: The Details Trilbe Specific Exercise Plans 2 Thu, Dec-05-02 07:21
Current and Potential Drugs for Treatment of Obesity-Endocrine Reviews Voyajer LC Research/Media 0 Mon, Jul-15-02 18:57
meal versus oil penelope Protein Power 1 Thu, Jul-11-02 07:22


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:59.


Copyright © 2000-2018 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.