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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 12:45
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
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Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default Zero Carb, wow!

I stumbled across a blog post by a woman doing zero carb, and I'll admit, I found the simplicity and straightforwardness of it appealing, and her results were phenomenal. Plus she had been doing it long term, which was a plus. She referenced a FB page for the Zero Carb people.

So....like a cat, I'm curious, so I request to join and am accepted.

After a few days reading their posts, and the comments that come with it, OMG, I'm taken aback! They seem bitter, caustic, and on the attack! In the comments on one post, I found strong and bitter bashing of LCHF proponents, attacks on Jimmy Moore, attacks on Intermittent Fasting, attacks on cooking your meat in butter, attacks on salt. I mean, if what you're doing works for you,that's great, but do you have to bash what other people are doing and what they find works for them?

I'm guessing their movement have been the subject of attacks from other camps, but I think they've forgotten that LC and ZC are really a lot closer than they seem to be portraying?!?!? We have common opponents (like the ADA, ADEA, AHA, etc), so it would seem that we could coexist.

I was amazed and shocked at how negative they were about things LC. Anybody here ZC? It seems like we could rightfully coexist.

Or...anybody encounter this group themselves? Your experience?
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 13:27
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

There are two threads right at the top of the Paleo sub-forum.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=405349
Think There are more links in those threads...not sure which sites you refer to.

I have read a few zero carb forums at times, mostly about cancer, though do not follow it. An intelligent website Is by Amber O'Hearn.http://www.empiri.ca/p/eat-meat-not...mostly-fat.html
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 15:02
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

Thanks for pointing me to that. That forum doesn't look very busy, and some crossover to what I understand is now defunct Zeroing In On Health Forum. The facebook group is called the Zeroing In On Health and in looking at it today, I'm seeing more encouraging posts and not so many negative ones. So maybe what I saw is an aberration. I'm pretty much live and let live. If something works for you, do it. And I will focus on what works for me.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 15:15
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Marvin, there are, in any group in any forum, people who are jerks. There just are; it's a fact of life on the internet.

For some reason, they tend to shy away from THIS forum, perhaps because of strong moderators here.

I haven't been to that FB forum, but I have heard stories about them, so your experience isn't a surprise to me.

If there is good info there, then you can choose to put the jerks on Ignore. That can really be helpful, for people whose comments are rarely anything but nasty.
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 17:56
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muffles muffles is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,713
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 245/189/145 Female 5"4
BF:
Progress: 56%
Location: New Zealand
Default

I used to go to a zero carb forum where there were crazy angry rants all the time. Too much for me to handle. I think that forum is no more, after too many implosions.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 19:42
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

MickySue is right, there's jerks everywhere you look, doesn't mean anything about the group itself, unless of course the group calls itself Jerks or something. Also, are we talking about the people or the diet? The diet is just fine as long as you follow a few simple rules. The rules aren't for the people, they're for the diet. For example, you gotta eat some fresh meat some of the time, can't be overcooked all the time. Cooking destroys some elements, see? These aren't rules of behavior, they're rules of physiology. It's like vegans, they have to supplement with a bunch of things, and it's got nothing to do with their belief, but with their physiology, see? Well, one could take it to the extreme and make it a way of life, an ideology. It's not a way of life, it's just the stuff you eat.

With that said, ZC is strict so it's hard to stick with, so it tends to attract people who can stick with a strict diet, and those people tend to not compromise, in other words to not be reasonable. The quality of being reasonable extends father than just the stuff you eat. For our purpose, it extends to how we behave toward other people. So, the very nature of ZC tends to attract jerks. It's just a tendency, you can fight it, but it's so very hard to fight tendencies, especially your own.

On a personal note, I used to be a jerk, I also did a ZC stint a while back. Maybe there's a connection, I don't really care. I much prefer to not be a jerk, there's more perks to being nice. I prefer to be around people who are nice, and there's tons of nice people on this forum, so I stick around, follow the few simple rules of conduct, i.e. don't be a jerk. Well, maybe it's just the forum you visited, its rules allow one to be a jerk maybe? I visited a few forums like that, I didn't really like it either.

I just checked the new ZOIH site, it's got a chicken meatball recipe with onions in it. Well, that's a no-no. ZC is strict, so the fact that ZOIH posts a recipe with onions in it tells me Charles decided to get reasonable. As I remember, he wasn't always like that, and he probably knew it. Doesn't mean anything about ZC itself, it's still just as strict as it ever was, and I'm sure Charles would agree. So, in a debate or discussion for example, one who eats that recipe can't say "I ate a ZC meal", cuz one would be lying.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 07:55
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wyatt wyatt is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 243
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 235/220/210 Male 6' 3"
BF:
Progress: 60%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
On a personal note, I used to be a jerk, I also did a ZC stint a while back. Maybe there's a connection, I don't really care. I much prefer to not be a jerk, there's more perks to being nice. I prefer to be around people who are nice, and there's tons of nice people on this forum, so I stick around, follow the few simple rules of conduct, i.e. don't be a jerk.


Love me some Martin Levac

ZC is great but I cannot be that strict, for a short time it's a way to get nutrition and diagnose some. Also reversing NAFLD is fairly easy on ZC I'm told.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 08:03
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 36,355
 
Plan: KetoCarnivore
Stats: 206.6/178/160 Female 5'7
BF:awesome
Progress: 61%
Location: USA
Default

From 2006-2012, I was zero carb... it healed my body, leaned me out, brought back clarity, memory, lost the brain fog and everything else that goes along with carbohydrate addiction....

Been <10 carbs a day for 45 yrs. never did the ladder addition of carbs.

It’s been good to me.. but, I live in modern society and with that comes socializing with food... and I like to be amongst other humans..
I enjoy socializing and I eat more than meat, now..
Right now, I have gone back to zero carb for April & May as I am getting ready for a major surgery.. a hip replacement..
zero carb will cut the digestion time, allowing my body to concentrate on healing me, after surgery..
But I figure sometime in mid June, I will go back to a little WEE bit of vegetable matter and a grain here and there.. I enjoy a little variety.

But zero carb has been good to my body.
I think eating zero carb is excellent for a speedy recovery.

Last edited by PilotGal : Mon, May-07-18 at 10:24.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 12:27
wheeler's Avatar
wheeler wheeler is offline
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Posts: 829
 
Plan: High protein/HIIT
Stats: 234/197/174 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 62%
Location: Alaska
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotGal
Right now, I have gone back to zero carb for April & May as I am getting ready for a major surgery.. a hip replacement..
zero carb will cut the digestion time, allowing my body to concentrate on healing me, after surgery..
But I figure sometime in mid June, I will go back to a little WEE bit of vegetable matter and a grain here and there.. I enjoy a little variety.

But zero carb has been good to my body.
I think eating zero carb is excellent for a speedy recovery.



This is very interesting to me, as I am also planning for my upcoming hip replacement surgery. I'm thinking to make ahead lots and lots of bone broth and freeze. I really like the theory that zero carb will help with a speedy recovery.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, May-18-18, 06:25
John222 John222 is offline
New Member
Posts: 1
 
Plan: zero carb carnivore
Stats: 222/168/168 Male 6 feet
BF:
Progress:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotGal
From 2006-2012, I was zero carb... it healed my body, leaned me out, brought back clarity, memory, lost the brain fog and everything else that goes along with carbohydrate addiction....

Been <10 carbs a day for 45 yrs. never did the ladder addition of carbs.

It’s been good to me.. but, I live in modern society and with that comes socializing with food... and I like to be amongst other humans..
I enjoy socializing and I eat more than meat, now..
Right now, I have gone back to zero carb for April & May as I am getting ready for a major surgery.. a hip replacement..
zero carb will cut the digestion time, allowing my body to concentrate on healing me, after surgery..
But I figure sometime in mid June, I will go back to a little WEE bit of vegetable matter and a grain here and there.. I enjoy a little variety.

But zero carb has been good to my body.
I think eating zero carb is excellent for a speedy recovery.


PilotGal may I ask the what exactly are your bone problems that lead to necessitate hip replacement?
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, May-07-18, 10:09
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatt
Love me some Martin Levac

ZC is great but I cannot be that strict, for a short time it's a way to get nutrition and diagnose some. Also reversing NAFLD is fairly easy on ZC I'm told.

Yeah, we can think of all-meat as therapeutic. But we seem to think it must be done for a long time before it does anything. Personally, I found it works even for just the one meal. So, feel like crap, eat a steak, feel better shortly thereafter. Even if the effect of one meal is not that big, there's something to be said about the power to choose to eat just a steak for this meal. To have the choice is empowering. This choice is enabled by the knowledge we have about all-meat.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Feb-08-16, 20:33
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

I've been a member of forums for a lot of different interests. By and large, forums of people trying to lose weight are the most gentle, and are least judgmental of people who do things or believe things differently than they do. It is often said, "the same thing doesn't necessarily work for all of us." I don't belittle you for what you so, and vice versa. A lot of these comments were very judgmental about LCHF and the people who choose it.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 08:53
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

Yes, but that's kind of the whole point. IF you are capable of going completely zero carb--and that doesn't mean meatballs with onions in them--you are probably intensely focused. And people who are intensely focused, just like people who are scattered, believe, in their hearts of hearts, that everyone is mostly like them.

The difference is that, if you are scattered, you are a bit more forgiving: you understand that things get lost in the flotsam and jetsam in the brain. But if you are intensely focused, you DON'T understand that, and you kind of assume that people who don't live as you do are lazy, or fooling themselves or whatever, and you can easily go from that belief to disdain for them and their lives.

I see it, a bit, in myself. There are people who routinely go off plan for what seem to me to be trivial reasons: a party, the holidays, a vacation, a family dinner at Mom's, whatever. And, if they want to do that, it's their life. But I get a little nuts when they then proceed to complain that this WOE doesn't work, and what can they do differently?

I yell to myself: stick to THIS WOE, that's what you can do differently!

But. As M. says, it's much more pleasant to be around nice people. So I either say nothing, or I try to suggest that staying 100% on plan for at least two months will show them whether or not it really works.

If I don't care, because I have an extremely rigid view of what works, because it works for ME, therefore, everyone should do it, well, I just might be a jerk, anyway.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 09:15
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cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

I stay away from forums where people give free reign to their nastiness. On diet related forums if your intent is to help other people become healthy or convince them that your way is the most beneficial then it is best to refrain from nastiness. It tends to alienate people not bring them into the fold. If your intent is to demonstrate your superiority then that's a different story and nastiness does a very good job of demonstrating to others that you believe that you are superior.

There are certainly people on this forum whose attitude gets in the way of their success and instead of looking inward to try to figure out how they can change themselves they look outward and blame the diet or blame their circumstances or blame something that is external to themselves. I too find this way of looking at things frustrating. Sometimes I won't respond because I am afraid that my frustration will get in the way of my saying anything that might be helpful. Other times I try to think of a way to phrase things that the other person might be able to hear and might help them turn things around.

I think it often comes down to whether your intention is to show that you are a superior being or if your intention is to be truly helpful.

Jean
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Feb-09-16, 09:19
NEMarvin's Avatar
NEMarvin NEMarvin is offline
Boldly going...
Posts: 837
 
Plan: keto
Stats: 410/298.6/225 Male 74 inches
BF:40/35%/17%
Progress: 60%
Location: Lincoln, NE
Default

Great Points, Mikki Sue. Focus does have a lot to do with it. But I am very suspicious of people who have THE answer, because I usually find that the people who are shouting the loudest and most vociferously have some deep dark side that they are hiding. This has come out in many circumstances in my 55 years.

The site that Janet posted (Amber's site) and one that Kelly and James Hogan have put together seem a lot less militant.
http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/start/

Honestly I could see myself going this way except I don't want to become a jerk. LOL. Seriously, I would need to do a little more research on gluconeogenesis, but it would seem to me that a lot of what zero carb proposes would be similar to combining LCHF and Fasting. But....I've only seen hatred form ZCers about Fasting. They see it as lowering the metabolic rate, which I'm not 100% sure about yet.

From what I can gather, their most compelling point about meat and water only is that it really doesn't give the body any "fuel" to create cravings. It sounds like many of the "old-timers" tried LCHF but found that even the acceptable vegetables gave them cravings.
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