What about sitting next to others I don't like? I don't want to sit next to yelling kids, next to annoying old people who want to talk your ear off, smelly smokers, drunk flyers, etc. They are invading my personal space, why not charge them double

I can't believe this! You have to keep an open mind when discussing this kind of stuff and not get angry at the first person that steps in and has a different opinion. Lighten up shark01.

I think when a person feels passionate about a subject, whether it be for or against, they have the right to express that passion as long as they don't make personal attacks on another. I defend sharks right to express his opinion and didn't feel he was personally attacking anyone. I also understand what triggs was saying and defend their right to say it. We need to be aware that some of us may have personally experienced discrimination and rudeness due to our size and as a result feel passionate and yes defensive about this issue.

The point is that air travel reduces everyone's personal space. It isn't your living room. I have to sit next to bodybuilders with wide shoulders and tall people whose legs invade my foot area. It's just part of economical air travel. I shouldn't be charged double for the same seating, simple as that

A piece of advice, if you don't have a thick skin, avoid posting obviously conflicting opinions and expecting not to be called on it

You should do the same

Okay boys, let's play nice.

I think you both have understandable points of view. But my question is...why are the seats only 18 inches wide? How long have they been this narrow? Is that pretty standard, or have they reduced the size of seats to make more money? The idea of converting a few seats to accomodate larger people sounds reasonable to me. They may have to after the suit being filed against them. It was just on the news the other day. Two women are suing SWA for their policy on buying two tickets because of their size. They were embarrassed by it and have filed suit. Something to keep an eye on. I knew it wouldn't be long before someone sued them.

I know as a LARGE person, I would not want to squish the person next to me. I am left handed as well, and have always been conscious of not elbowing people and taking up other's space. Any left handers would understand the contortion we have to go thru when eating next to others. Most FAT people are aware of their surroundings and are not trying to be rude to other's around them. But I definitely don't want to have to buy two tickets. Victoria

As should you

This is what worries me. If the US courts decide that airlines have the right to charge a passenger any amount they wish-- based solely on the passenger's size (not color, handicapping condition, religion, ethnic background, or annoying habits)-- how long will it be before trains, bus companies realize they can also charge double for taking one passenger of size?

And referring to Shark's quote above, if a large person is applying for a job, and a small person is applying for the same job, who would the employer be likely to hire? The fat one who would cost the company twice as much to travel? Or the small economy sized person? And who would blame an employer for legally discriminating against fat people?

If the US Supreme court decides that charging double based on size is all right,
discrimination against fat people will not be discrimination at all.

It will simply be good business sense.

Mae West
"A guy in the cadillac is worth six guys in the phone book." The other Mae West

I was surfing the web-- trying to find information about the two women suing SWA that Victoria wrote about, and came across this interesting article on the subject:

"2 tickets, please: Fat man flying"

"By Jeffrey A. Leon. Jeffrey A. Leon is a Chicago attorney"

"Published June 30, 2002"

"The other day I found myself walking into a major airport worried that I was about to commit a "crime": As a portly individual, I was about to try to fly on an airplane despite the fact that I had purchased only one seat. Imagine my brazen audacity!"

"Let's get one thing out of the way immediately. I am a large man. Fat. Obese. A whale. Unambiguously large. I am not 20 or 30 pounds overweight (I wish!). I can stand to lose multiples of that weight. Yet anyone looking at me would be fairly certain I have a problem that overeating alone cannot explain."

"Thanks to Southwest Airlines, I now have to contend with people staring at me, wondering if I am "stealing" an extra seat, as well as the prospect of a subjective appraisal by a gate agent that I have to purchase an extra ticket to accommodate myself, while some other person who shops at my Big and Tall store does not. Exactly who is fat enough to be forced to purchase an extra seat?"

"Does the tall guy whose knees are digging into the back of my seat have to pay extra? What about the people who have brought shopping bags from half the stores on Michigan Avenue onto the plane, taking up all the overhead space?"

"Perhaps the gate agents should force a person with bad body odor to purchase two seats as a buffer zone because sitting next to a smelly passenger is unpleasant."

"I have experienced all these discomforts of flying and more. The bottom line is that we are all subjected to numerous indignities every time we fly on an airplane, and sitting next to the fat guys should rank fairly low on the list. Worse, being singled out amongst all the inconveniencers for punitive treatment simply because I am fat is itself an indignity."

"The implications of this policy go far beyond offending my delicate sensibilities. I am a partner at a large Chicago law firm, and travel is a regular part of my job. Will my clients now wonder if they should hire me to handle their cases because they might have to pay twice as much to fly me around as compared to the skinnier guy who also is under consideration? Let us be clear, this is discrimination, pure and simple. And what is worse is that Southwest has chosen discrimination when reasonable accommodations can easily be made."

"For starters, I am considerate. I try to avoid planes that are fully packed, and will fly only when I have an aisle seat, as the armrest on the aisle lifts up and allows me to give anyone sitting next to me additional space. I will not fly in a middle seat, as it is unfair to the others in the row and extremely uncomfortable for me. I have let planes go and caught the next one if an aisle seat is unavailable."

"In short, Southwest has chosen a path that was unnecessary and will inflict economic and pyschic injury on a group of people who already, as a general rule, suffer from low esteem. Let us not pretend that the extremely obese do not have a handicap. One does not get this way without a strong helping hand from genetics. But Southwest suggests I should go on a diet, as if I have not thought of that or tried a million of them."

"I will not fly Southwest any longer, and I hope the rest of the industry does not come to share its callous notion of customer service."

Amen.

In my travels on the web, I couldn't find anything about the two women suing SWA though. Do you happen to know where that happened, Victoria? Maybe their local newspapers would have more information.

Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken so long before we heard of any suits. I thought there would be news on suits starting to be filed on June 27th---

I'm flying to Hollywood on Delta Airlines this Saturday. (I really am! It's not just my Mae West imaginary personality!) I haven't heard that Delta has this kind of policy, but boy am I nervous about it. I have budgeted just enough extra money to be able to afford a taxi, and maybe a hamburger (sans the bun of course.) If they tell me I have to pay double I'll just have to leave the airport before my torrent of tears ground all the planes.

Mae West
"I never diet. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond." The other Mae West

I saw them on CNN a couple of days ago, and they are about to suit Southwest. What struck me about their case, is that they (two big black women) offered to purchase 3 seats for the two of them, and Southwest refused, insisting on 4 seats for the two of them!!!!!

This in itself should win the case for them. Imagine, refusing to sell 3 seats to be accupied by two passengers flying together.

Wa'il

WOW! The more I hear about SWA policies, the more my jaw scrapes on the floor! I'm speechless!

Mae West
"Don't ever make the same mistake twice... unless it pays." The Other Mae West

They were flying from California to Las Vegas. I'm thinking it was Oakland, CA. but my memory isn't clear where their starting point was.

I can't believe they wouldn't let them take three seats for the two of them. That sounded like a great solution. I'm sure we'll hear more soon. Victoria

http://www.itv.com/news/Front217744.html

'People of size' to sue airline
8.43AM BST, 30 Jun 2002

Two overweight women are set to sue a US airline that made them buy two tickets each, because of their size.

Trina Oliver and Felicia Crawford are outraged that Southwest Airlines forced them to pay for extra seats on a flight from Oakland, California to Las Vegas.

Trina and Felicia tried to negotiate with the airline agent to purchase only one extra seat, so they could sit together and share the space between them.

But the agent refused, so the two women had to stump up $170 (£110) for another set of round-trip tickets.

"I was angry. I was hurt. I was frustrated. I was like, you know, why is this happening to me? It's not right," said Felicia Crawford.

In a statement, Southwest Airlines confirmed that any customer needing to lift the armrest would be required to pay for the additional seat.

The company pointed out that it was only enforcing US policy, which states that larger passengers must buy an extra seat on the plane.

"We sell seats, and if you consume more than one seat, you have to buy more than one seat," said a Southwest spokeswoman.

However, advocates for the obese are outraged.

"It's just discriminatory and it's mean-spirited," said Morgan Downey, executive director of the American Obesity Association. "This is singling out a group that's been very heavily stigmatised rather than making some accommodations in their cabins."

Campaigners acting on behalf of "people of size" believe airlines should introduce wider seats to accommodate the fact that Americans are getting larger - according to some estimates, more than one fourth of Americans are obese.

Good for them.......those idiots need to be sued

I am amused by the outrage expressed here. To me it's very simple, if you substantially flow into the next seat why shouldn't you pay for it? Put another way . . .if I am sitting within my seat's constraints, and have paid for that space, why should I have to tolerate your legs, thighs, arms and waist contiually pressing into me? This doesn't necessarily happen when a average sized person sits next to me. I think it IS discrimination . . . against ME.

Why do you people think you have a right to impose yourself physically upon me?

These thoughts are from a Continental Gold Elite member (50k miles a year)

Buy two seats or fly first class but don't infringe upon me and don't claim discrimination when I complain.