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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-17-15, 12:07
want2Bskny want2Bskny is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 496
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 170/168/140 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: New York
Default Changed forever --- Just saw Forks Over Knives and Food, Inc.

Has anyone else watched either of these two documentaries? They have really changed my long held views. I can't stop thinking about them both.

I have been a tried and true carnivore most of my life (except for a few months in high school, after reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair where I switched from meat to Devil Dogs!). Since seeing these two movies 3 days ago, however, I have not had an ounce of meat, or dairy (eggs included) and only a little oil. I feel so confused about what to eat, as I'm so much a low carb believer, except that the plant-based whole foods things really seems to make sense to me right now.

I truly can't believe what an impact these movies had on me. I learned that Casein from dairy actual can "turn on" cancer. Reason enough for me to try and learn to live without it.

I very much want to lose weight and LOVE low carb, but I am completely turned off by meat and dairy right now. I think I may be turning to this section of the forum much more than I used to.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-17-15, 22:24
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,653
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
Default

Hi,

IMO every way of eating has it's proponents that slam the opposite way, kwim? And all of them are convincing. I dare you to search youtube. Or even google scholar

I'm not 100% vegetarian or anything, but I do have a lot more plant foods than a strictly LC approach would allow. I think it's doable without using much dairy or meat. I am 100% off of grains, beans and potatoes. I keep my proteins to about 40g daily or less, and calories under 1,500. The losing is much slower this way, but I'm ok with that.

I eat a couple of eggs a day with veggies; one meal is usually a salad with avocado, tomato, slivered almonds and some goat cheese (you could omit); dinner might be a piece of fish, chicken or other meat, more veggies, and half a piece of fruit. Snacks are nuts, sliced pepper, cucumbers, etc.

Give it a shot...use a nutrition tracker of some sort so you see what you are getting.

BTW, just anecdotal, but I have a lifelong friend who has been as close to 100% organic/vegetarian since the age of 25. She won't even use lotion or shampoo that isn't organic...very very little dairy....and she had colon cancer at the age of 59. My cousin, also a vegetarian, had breast cancer. So going vegetarian isn't going to guarantee anything. Just saying'.

If I could go 100% vegetarian (as I was from age 18 to maybe 37) I would. It just doesn't work for a diabetic though. No starches for me.

Anyway, do your research (who knows what studies/size studies/funding for said studies were used for these films) and don't make life-altering decisions based solely on opinions of guys who make movies.

Wish you the best!
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-20-15, 14:28
millieska millieska is offline
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Posts: 2
 
Plan: none
Stats: 230/135/130 Female 60 inches
BF:
Progress: 95%
Default

FWIW, I am a vegan AND a diabetic. Starting with an A1C of 9.4, I dropped to an A1C of 5.7 within three months of becoming a vegan. I eat oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes, beans, lentils and various other carby foods. I watch my carbs, but only those from processed foods. I don't eat any of those at all.
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Mar-30-15, 19:16
want2Bskny want2Bskny is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 496
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 170/168/140 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 7%
Location: New York
Default

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm definitely struggling.

I think I am eating fish, but no dairy and other meat. No cheese. Very little processed foods as I'm working on this.

I am not sure how I feel about oils now.

Too many carbs for sure, but again, not sure what I should be eating for optimal health.

Was down a few pounds but am sure as I'm eating bread, the pounds will come back on.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Mar-12-17, 10:21
jmh6251's Avatar
jmh6251 jmh6251 is offline
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Posts: 875
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 190/155/145 Female 5ft 3.5 in
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: Kitsap County in Wa
Default

I have watched forKS over knives, and a lot of the other documentaries, my main reason for doing this is my health. I just feel better eating this way. That being said, I tried going lowcarb using meat and the pain was unimaginable. When your body reacts to inflammation as badly as mine does, meat never enters the equation.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-14-17, 21:14
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,653
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
Default

I can't do much in the way of beef anymore. Pain.

Have you watched Cowspiracy? I have only seen about 5 minutes. My vegan son keeps reminding me to watch it.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 03:28
PilotGal PilotGal is offline
Look up to the sky
Posts: 43,061
 
Plan: Maintenance since 2007.
Stats: 206.6/178/178 Female 5'7
BF:awesome
Progress: 100%
Location: USA
Default

now that you've watched those movies, watch Fathead, listen to Gary Taubes, Dr. Robert Lustig, Mark Sisson, Michael Eades, Jimmy Moore, Dr. Jason Fung.

So much information out there on staying healthy...
not propaganda.

good luck.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 09:57
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,558
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

https://www.westonaprice.org/our-bl...prevent-cancer/

Caseine turning on cancer--sort of. Not really. Sometimes limiting an amino acid can limit growth--both in the full organism, and in a cancer.

Campbell was involved in some work intended to alleviate protein malnutrition in poor children with peanuts as the protein source. It was discovered after this that aflavotoxins in peanuts cause liver cancer. Subsequently, he did the studies showing that low protein intake decreased the cancer promoting effects of aflavotoxin. Animals meeting their amino acid requirements from plant proteins aren't protected vs. animals meeting their amino acid requirements from caseine--since with an incomplete protein, protein requirements go up, at the same total protein intake, gluten fed animals are effectively more protein restricted than caseine fed animals.

And then there's this;
Quote:
Campbell never tells us, however, that these Indian researchers actually published this paper as part of a two-paper set, one showing that low-casein diets make aflatoxin much more acutely toxic to rats (1), and the other showing that these same diets make aflatoxin much less carcinogenic (2).

In the very paper (2) that Campbell cites as “a revelation to die for,” showing that a high-protein diet turns the cancer switch to the “on” position, the low-protein diet proved lethal to the animals. The investigators gave rats a small dose of aflatoxin every day for six months and fed them either a 5 percent casein or 20 percent casein diet. The experiment carried on for two years, in fact, but they stopped adminstering aflatoxin at six months for the simple reason that half the animals on the low-protein diet had died. They had typical symptoms of aflatoxin toxicity including liver necrosis (cell death), proliferation of bile duct tissue, and fatty liver.

All the animals receiving 20 percent casein, on the other hand, were still alive at that point. For the remainder of the two years, the rats receiving 20 percent casein continued to live longer, but many of them developed liver cancer or pre-cancerous changes, while none of the rats fed 5 percent casein developed liver cancer.


Aside from anything else, how do we know that the animals that died from more direct toxic effects of aflatoxin weren't just the ones that would have gone on to develop liver cancer, if they'd been fed a less ridiculous diet?

Nothing against vegetarian diets, you just need enough protein.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 10:44
ThatChick ThatChick is offline
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Posts: 7
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 203.3/181.7/180 Female 5'7"
BF:GF :)
Progress: 93%
Default

teaser, but no humans are dropping dead from vegetarian diets. It's not like it's a new thing or a fad diet and we just haven't discovered how dangerous it is yet. I'm not arguing against the need for protein, just that vegetarians get enough of it without going out of our way to try. Humans seem to thrive just fine on vegetarian diets, probably because we don't subsist purely on peanuts.

I really agree with gonwtwindo here, all sides have really good arguments and all that, but in the end it seems it doesn't matter all that much for the person consuming the diet. Studies show that vegetarians don't live that much longer on average really, at best we get a couple years more than meat eaters. I'm only not eating animals because I care about them and could never kill one myself, not for health or political reasons.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 11:28
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,558
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I'm not saying they are. I'm just responding to this;

Quote:
I learned that Casein from dairy actual can "turn on" cancer.


Just the scientific claim bothers me, no problem with the philosophy or ethics of vegetarianism.

I have no problem with plant proteins, they do increase total protein requirements to satisfy all amino acid requirements (or a little old-fashioned protein mixing), but who cares? So eat a bit more plant protein, not a big deal for most people. I don't even have a problem with peanuts. The liver cancer from peanuts in humans came down to unethical peanut butter producers not bothering to sort out rancid peanuts before making peanut butter. I don't think I'd buy a jar of peanut butter that said "made in China." I worry about binging on peanuts, but not much else.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 14:10
ThatChick ThatChick is offline
New Member
Posts: 7
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 203.3/181.7/180 Female 5'7"
BF:GF :)
Progress: 93%
Default

Sorry teaser, I was being a bit hangry (still adjusting to ketosis) and I really shouldn't be allowed to visit forums when that happens. I don't know anything about the casein thing honestly and should have just kept my mouth shut!
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Mar-15-17, 18:41
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,558
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Serves me right for responding to a two year old claim.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Mar-17-17, 10:04
jmh6251's Avatar
jmh6251 jmh6251 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 875
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 190/155/145 Female 5ft 3.5 in
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: Kitsap County in Wa
Default

I finally found a vegan meetup group in my area, their next meeting is a week from this Saturday. I will be going. My eating habits made an impact on my DIL. She is experimenting with vegetarianism. For animal rights issues.
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