Yes I am, and I would certainly be interested. Thank you very much! I'd love to hear what he has to say - though even now, just by cutting the protein and upping the fat I have seen wonderful results in my BG numbers.



Yet, I do feel this can be an issue. My most recent meal out was very much that way. I did my best to keep the protein within limits, but the meal was *very low fat* at this chic Asian fusion place where it just did not seem possible to say something like *please bring me a hunk of butter*.

Though my first meal out - the BLT salad with lots of olive oil dressing - was not so bad in the P:F ratio - bu that was a few days ago.



I love the idea of this thread, especially as I'll be away from home all next week. I'll be staying with my dad so at least will have access to a fridge and cooking facilities, but there will still be a fair number of meals out I'm sure. Plus there is the 12-hour ride down and the 12-hour ride back, and I have to eat *something* during the journey, and have been trying to come up with ideas for good "road food". My sister (and our 3 dogs, ) will be coming with me. We usually stop at fast food places to grab quick bites.

In the past I would sometimes go to Dunkin Donuts and get their sausage, egg and cheese just heated on a plate, and lunch would be the "low carb burger" at Hardee's (wrapped in lettuce) - but these choices are all too high in protein and low in fat for this plan. I did buy a container of Macadamia nuts for the trip and it's been taking a lot of willpower not to eat them right now.

Each meal doesn't have to fit the ratios precisely, but you're supposed to try to stay more or less in the ballpark. The suggested meals on the English language web site, and in the books (which are based on the menus that are used for the patients in his residential treatment program) vary from ~ 1:1.5 - 1:4 for P:F, and 0.2 - 0.7 for carbs, IIRC. But they're never "low fat." Even the leanest ones would be like a typical meal on the Barry Groves diet.

To give another example, Peter from the Hyperlipid blog goes lighter on protein in the morning, so he can have a substantial helping of meat at dinner time -- but he eats a lot of fat along with it. He'll cook some lamb with bacon, or add butter to a meat stew, that sort of thing.

On the other hand, 2 oz. grilled calamari has 8.8 g of protein, and only 0.8 g of fat... which is a 10:1 ratio! Even if you dip it in butter sauce, you'd still be way off.

My husband ran into this problem when he had to go with colleagues to a sushi restaurant. Sashimi is low-carb, but most types are practically fat-free. I suggested that next time, he could order the fattiest fish on the menu (I made him a chart ), and ask for one of those squeeze bottles of Japanese mayo. I'm not sure if he'll have the nerve, though.

OK thanks. In order to get the fat in I usually eat more than I normally would at each meal however I have not really paid attention to the ratios per meal just for the day. I will have to go back and check out my plan and see for each meal. I will also be more diligent in the ratios per meal.
Thanks again

Yes, this is a problem. I love sashimi but it is so low fat. I order salmon belly, tuna belly, yellowtail belly- I think the bellies are the fattiest part. Eel is also very fatty. You can also usually find some kind of avocado salad/app to up the fat. Even with all this, it is probably not nearly high fat enough. Still, I wouldn't dare put mayo on sashimi in front of the chef. I'd sooner drink it from the bottle

Okay, two days of "home eating" now, and the scale dropped over 2 1/2 pounds this morning, so I'm less than a pound again from my current low, so I feel back on track. Hope I can manage while down in NC next week. Well just learned this morning that my job *may* be getting "transitioned" to an off-shore resource (meaning someone in Brazil most likely) later this year, which means no more need for me! Maybe the depression will keep me from eating too much. Stay tuned.

Debbie, I usually go up some when eating out no matter how good of choices I made because of the sodium. Most of us don't put near the amount of salt in our food as most restaurants do and that can wreak havoc on the scale.

I'm not sure what you mean by "get the fat in." Keep in mind that you shouldn't be eating bigger meals than you're hungry for; you can just stop when you're full. The important thing is to maintain the overall ratio of P:F:C.

This is why it's easiest to balance each meal pretty carefully at the beginning.

What I mean by get the fat in that I add more fat to each meal I don't wait till the end of the day and try to get it all in then. THis is easy because I have been doing high fat for awhile but with very low carb and more protein.

I have been eating more but My cravings are a lot more since I started this diet. I eat about 2000 cals a day from 1200-1500. I crave a lot its making me crazy. about 3:00 until dinner time and into the evening is the worst. I think its the increase in carbs. Any ideas? Has anyone else's cravings increased?

One month update.

Well, April 1 I started the Dr. K plan, using the calculated ranges. On the 21st of April I switched to a set number based upon the 1/2.5/0.8 ratio. My numbers are 61/153/49. My averages for the last 4 weeks, using Fitday (and weighing most everything) were:

Calories 1761
Fat 144 (74%)
Net Carb 39 (11%)
Protein 56 (13%)
Alcohol 5 (2%)

The random number generator did not have a net change. A week ago I was up 2 kilos/4-5 pounds. I increased my water consumption and am down those 2 kilos but overall, my multi-month stall continues.

I also measured, as I do every month and there were no huge changes (1/2 inch off one thigh and a little off my upper arm). Although I had to tighten my belt by a notch this month, it was not reflected in my waist measurement. However, I do believe that it is truly difficult to get an accurate measurement because an inch or two either direction will yield a different number.

So, what's a woman to do? Chuck it all or hold the course or something in between? I've decided to hold the course. I will continue this experiment for another month. I am enjoying eating the additional carbs (I was under 20 per day, now I am typically very near 50 net); I'm not missing the additional protein that I used to consume (I was in excess of 100 gms/day now I come in around 50 most days) and am considering dropping it just a little (maybe 10%?) as my first 'tweak'. I need to be creative to get enough fat in but that's not been too much of a struggle. I'll also keep to my higher level of water/herbal tea consumption.

I struggle (mentally) with my calories being higher than pre Dr. K - but I didn't gain weight on the higher calories this month so I'm trying to keep that thought on the back burner and just let the calories come in where they do.

The only other thing I MAY do is weigh weekly instead of monthly. We'll see as frequent weighing makes me a bit nutso.

Ideas/feedback welcome!

The good for me is the disappearing of carb cravings. Even on low carb I wanted carbs, I tried to replace the sweet taste with sweeteners and thought of spaghetti and other pasta as very great fooods to have from time to time. Lot of things tasted bland to me.

Since adopting a OD like nutrition, yogurt and mascarpone and creams taste very sweet, sweet stuff (when I tried occasionally) like chocolate or biscuits taste disgustingly sweet for me. I don't care for sweeteners and I'm glad I have weaned off them. The kept me hooked on sweet stuff and made me crave more and also I'm pretty sure the sweet taste alone was enough to trigger an insulin response from how I felt. Also low-sugar fruits like strawberries and frozen taste very sweet and loveable.

In a way being able to appreciate the natural sweet taste of thing has also helped me to appreciate the natural flavours of other foods without excessive salt. Veggies taste a lot better and I can feel the distinctive aroma of each of them instead of having them tasting the taste: heavy salted.

I don't care for pasta anymore, I tried to taste some but it tastes different, like tree bark. Doesn't seem very appetizing anymore.

And all the time I have tried to eat something sugary I had no cravings. I could eat my candy (incidentally or as an experiment) and feel no need for more. One biscuit used to send me in a binge, now I can have a biscuits, stop and reach for a piece of brie instead.

My bleedy gums don't bleed anymore and my hair don't fall as easily (although they're still damn frizzy)

Yesterday I was bummed out about the prospect of maybe getting laid off later this year. I've been at the same company for 35 years, and I'm good at what I do. But what if I had to land out in the job market again? Who in their right minds would hire a 57-year-old woman who weighs almost 300 pounds? It would be hopeless. So I had sort of an "emotional eating day".

By which I don't mean I went face-down in the carbs. I *didn't*. I stuck to OD - but really ended up with a lot of fat and carbs (about 67g of carbs which is my high so far on OD). I didn't touch the amazing Italian pasties from Veniero's at choir rehearsal last night, but broke into my stash of macadamia nuts I'd bought for tomorrow's trip. All told I think I sucked in about 3200 calories for the day, though my protein remained quite low.

And guess what? I was down another half pound again today! I'm back to my LOW for the week. How do you like that?

Yay Debbie! I'm glad to hear that your weight loss is back on track! Here's hoping that your job situation works out just as well.

I can relate to the "macadamia therapy." I bought a couple of bags for DH's Easter basket, but I've ended up eating most of them myself in stressful moments (like yesterday, when I discovered my 3-year-old squeezing a tube of expensive, greasy skin ointment all over the bathroom). I'm so glad to have an alternative to indulging in sweet treats.

That's great! Congratulations

OK...so...small tentative happy dance? Down 2.2 pounds for the week. And even with the increased carbs, no cravings. Excellent. The dance is tentative until I get below 160 (160-170 is where I get stuck) and/or I see consistent losses for the next few weeks. Which might be more challenging because I will be on vacation with friends for 10 days. I will be sticking to OD as closely as I can and I am getting MUCH better at eyeballing the protein portions. My biggest challenge will be the veggie proteins. 8g of protein in cauliflower??? Who knew? We'll see what we see...

I started this “Optimal” way of eating on April 10th and I am still loving it. I had a couple of emergencies that kept me away from home so I ate off plan about 3-4 days this past month. I still ate LC but not enough fat to keep within the ratios on those days. Otherwise, I have been adhering to the ratios pretty strictly. I try to eat as many “Optimal” type foods as I can but I also eat things like berries and salads that are not stressed by Dr. K.

I eat 30-40g carbs (from veggies, berries, yogurt, 87% chocolate), 50-60g protein (from meat, fish, eggs, pate) and a TON of fat- 125-175g (from nut butters, butter, full fat yogurt, cream, olive oil, marscapone, creme fraiche, etc.). My calories have been ranging from 1400-2000, usually on the higher end of that scale. I am more than amazed to be losing eating usually 1800 calories/day.

Before I go on, a little history. I always feel like kind of a jerk posting with my neurotic little 8 lb. weight loss goal. I am in awe of so many of you who have lost so much weight. My problems with food have been a bit different…bulimic in 20's, hospitalized and much better in 30's & 40's and while never very overweight, always struggling with food, weight, blood sugar, etc. My pattern was to eat ultra low fat, high carb (mostly apples, coffee and bran muffins, salads), keep things in check for a while but then get so hungry (and I now know protein and fat depleted), that I would end up binging and then have to get control again. I repeated that cycle for many years.

I found low carb, things got better. I dabbled with the meat and water crowd and I had many health improvements but also gained about 5+ pounds. I thought that it was worth the extra weight if I no longer ended up in a binge but of course I was not happy about the extra pounds. I could not budge them for almost a year.

Fast forward: Now that I am following the Optimal Diet (or a pale version of it), I’ve started losing again- over 6 lbs now! I'm amazed. I’m about 2 ½ lbs from where I’d like to be but obviously this is not my most important goal. All along I have been looking for a way of eating that would allow me to eat healthily, that would satisfy my hunger and that would not cause me to gain weight. Although I’ve never had a lot to lose, I’ve always been tortured by food, weight, body image, etc. so basically, I just want some peace and normalcy around these issues.

It’s only been about a month so I don’t want to get crazy and think that this is the end of my “issues” with food but I just want to say that this is the most hope I’ve ever had.

Lauren