Oh, and by the way, Splenda is mostly sugar:

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_b...-You--7900.aspx

Thanks for responding.


Well, if PrPc can be in milk, then I suppose PrPSc could be too. Although that is not proven, there's no reason to rule it out. So that's a new development from my point of view.
There's a cleaner-looking page of this news here:
http://www.genengnews.com/news/bnit...x?name=12293532


Oh, I agree, all of those things are important when it comes to BSE (well, let's say TSE, for all species). But even if you take a clean, safe animal and raise it on vegetable food, if the slaughtering isn't clean it can contaminate instantly.


That's great, and I'm glad you feel so well - but as clinicians like to say, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.'

We tend to buy Shell gas, because my father-in-law works for Shell (he's a biologist).


I think we can all agree that clear labeling is a good idea. I'm always happy to see produce that is labeled with where it came from - I got used to that when I spent a few years living in Europe, where I think it's required. Not every store does that, here in the States, but some do. And people have to understand that Chile doesn't have the same laws and regulations we do (for pesticides or for workers), so if you really want clean produce, you should eat seasonal local foods.


That is much more clear, thanks.


Well, they do overlap, I'm not implying they don't. But the message should be clear. I mean, eating certified organic beef is protective when it comes to fear of prion exposure, even if the beef came from seven states away. Eating local beef that is not certified organic, is not protective unless you have verified their practices yourself.


Very well put!


That's a nice site. You can put in your zip code and get local results.


Sure, but that's not what my point was. I was talking about people already here on this forum, already eating low-carb. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.
People eating low-carb can have trouble affording the really nice options (like organic produce or local meat) sometimes, or just having access to them. I think most people on this site would choose local, would choose organic, if they could, but some can't due to cost or maybe they live in a place with only one store or what have you. Maybe they can't afford the nicer eggs some weeks, or maybe their store only has the conventional eggs. That's all I'm sayin'.


Heh. Well, I'm not trying to criticize your personality or anything, and there is some overlap between these issues. I guess I just respond better to lists and bullet points.

• They do
• Make everything
• Really clear!

No argument there - total agreement.


Yay! A list! I guess I just like my info easily digestible.


Yeah, I can't agree with the USDA on that. If a company wants to test, let 'em. They want to test so they can sell to Japan, why not let them?


Bear in mind that this will cause meat prices to go up. Feeding animals costlier food will definitely do that, at least at first. The thing with grody rendered animal offal is, it's cheap protein. I'm hardly in favor of it, though. I mean, EW. Gross.

I can think of one other suggestion after reading up on this:
4. The US and Canada should form some cooperative agreements on testing and procedures that would be binding for all North American beef.


Always good.


And I thank you for responding.

The similarity is risk of prion exposure, that's all. Deer, elk, and moose in the wild can carry CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease). It appears to be endemic in the wild populations in the WY/CO/NE area. Nobody can say at the moment whether eating them will transmit the disease, though.


I don't know where you are, but hopefully there is no problem.


That's true, very true.


I can't agree with you there. In Asia people live very closely with their livestock, and this is what allows transmission and mutation to happen so quickly. Generally from bird to pig to human. Not a factory farm, but thousands of family farms.
Most of our major human diseases in history have come from livestock due to some mutation jumping the species barrier. Back in the day, my Saxon ancestors moved the stock into the house with them during the winter; I've seen the old houses. Or some have the barn built onto the house.


On the other hand, as LowCarbNic points out, big business is still governed by the consumer - if enough consumers want something and it becomes profitable to give it to them.


The USDA monitors your local farmer, too, though. Whether you care about that or not. State monitoring is probably more interesting, though. And meeting the cow is probably the best way.

LowCarbNic,

I am sorry for you loss. While it is hard to translate human beings we know and love into hard and cold statistics, the average person does have to evaluate total risk when it comes to changing life style or worrying about what dangers may chance our way. My step-daughter died of an extremely rare cancer so I am well aware that statistics mean nothing when it comes to our loved ones. Her cancer had a 1 in 2 million occurance rate, and thus no relevant research or known treatments.

I do think risk is an important factor to consider in making lifestyle decisions. At this point, vCJD is so rare, that I have a hard time thinking I ought to change what I'm eating in response to it.

When it comes to organic...I don't really trust it any more or less than "normal" food. One of my Uncles is a big fruit farmer, and we asked him one time if you could tell the difference between organic and non-organic apples. He laughed and said "The organic ones are the ones with the worm holes in them."

When I got pregnant, I was told based on statistics for my age, there was a 1 in 100 change my baby would have some major birth defect. I'm so glad I didn't let that stop my from getting pregnant at nearly 40 yrs old. Having a child has been the greatest experience of my lifetime.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is I try to worry about the things that I have control over and that seem to carry the most risk in my life. If I worried every time I got in a car or climbed on an airplane, I could make what life I do have miserable. The risks of riding in cars or airplanes along with about everything else we do are multitudes worse than possibly catching vCJD.



From:

http://www.livescience.com/forcesof...s_of_dying.html

All figures below are for U.S. residents.

Cause of Death Lifetime Odds
Heart Disease 1-in-5
Cancer 1-in-7
Stroke 1-in-23
Accidental Injury 1-in-36
Motor Vehicle Accident 1-in-100
Intentional Self-harm (suicide) 1-in-121
Falling Down 1-in-246
Assault by Firearm 1-in-325
Fire or Smoke 1-in-1,116
Natural Forces (heat, cold, storms, quakes, etc.) 1-in-3,357
Electrocution* 1-in-5,000
Drowning 1-in-8,942
Air Travel Accident* 1-in-20,000
Flood* (included also in Natural Forces above) 1-in-30,000
Legal Execution 1-in-58,618
Tornado* (included also in Natural Forces above) 1-in-60,000
Lightning Strike (included also in Natural Forces above) 1-in-83,930
Snake, Bee or other Venomous Bite or Sting* 1-in-100,000
Earthquake (included also in Natural Forces above) 1-in-131,890
Dog Attack 1-in-147,717
Asteroid Impact* 1-in-200,000**
Tsunami* 1-in-500,000
Fireworks Discharge 1-in-615,488

** Perhaps 1-in-500,000

SOURCES: National Center for Health Statistics, CDC; American Cancer Society; National Safety Council; International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies; World Health Organization; USGS; Clark Chapman, SwRI; David Morrison, NASA; Michael Paine, Planetary Society Australian Volunteers

IN comparison:
http://www.bchealthguide.org/healthfiles/hfile55a.stm


How common is CJD?

CJD is very rare. In Canada there are about 30 cases each year. It occurs at a rate of about one case per million people. It can be found in every country around the world

How common is vCJD?

vCJD is extremely rare. In 2002, one case was diagnosed in Canada in a person who often travelled to the UK. Most cases have occurred in Britain. Since the discover of vCJD in 1996 up to December 2003, there have been 153 cases worldwide. Between 1996 and March 2004 there have been 146 cases and 139 deaths in Britain.

jwc, thank you, I agree wholeheartedly. I was trying to say something to that effect as well and failed. There is no reason to worry over any particular food, whether venison or California spinach, since anything - absolutely anything - including the glass you pour your water in, can become contaminated with something deadly.

ayla6- Thank you!! That makes me feel somewhat better about being raised on venison. Will definately pass the info on to my dad (a big hunter) and cant wait to read your links/recomendations!

Oh- and btw- ROFL!!!!!! love it!

ysabella- thank you again! I agree with just abot everything you said- and your addition, love it!!!

jwc- Thank you for posting.... First, I am very sorry to hear about your step-daughter. That must have been difficult. And, I am glad to hear you went ahead and decided to have a child, regardless of what the stats said. I completely agree that we should be mindful of statistics, but not let them rule our lives.

Now, in order for me to not sound way too repetitive here, please go back and read one of my first responses to Dodger, who had similar statistics/links. I do not believe them. That is my feeling- b/c so many of us w/ family members who deal w/ CJD dealths, all get together on various online sites, and we all have a feeling the whole "1:1million" is BS- sorry but that is how we feel based on how many of us deal w/ this, and how this disease is not a "Reportable illness" yet in many US States- how can they come up with reliable Statistics when they dont Report the deaths, causes, or even do an autopsy to find out (the diesase is only really diagnosable upon death). Not to mention, how often this disease is misdiagnosed as other similar looking diseases, ie: Alzheimers... I find those stats are bunk! And, its not just b/c i thought my Grandpa was 1:1million (which he was to me of course) but b/c of losing him, it led me to research this, which led me deeper and deeper into the lies were being told, IMO. And, I hope Im wrong... Im waiting for someone to proove me wrong, actually... If there really ONLY was a 1:1million chance, do you think I would be here trying to stir up commotion over 1:1million... no. The point of this wasnt to only talk about my issues w/ CJD, rather to talk about my choice to go "organic". But, it ended up going way more about the CJD thing, b/c i am very skeptical of those numbers, and am passionate for the reasons you outlined.

And, I want to mention that McDonalds, for example, which has the meat of up to 1,000 cattle IN 1 HAMBURGER- 1!!!!!! Now if it is true that prion diseases can be passed along in meat (i personally feel they can be) and cooking doesnt kill the diseased prions, and even 1 of those 1,000 cattle have Mad Cow, and that 1 cow is put into - hm- lets say a couple hundred different burgers- the results- uh- would not be so pretty. This is not normal practice, this is new- they are gambling w/ our lives at the sake of their bottom line!!! That much i believe is true.

So- that bein said (not tryin to bite your head off at all!!!) I think we deserve the truth and real numbers- dont you??. I dont know if well ever know them because those who "control the seed control the food" ie: those who control the silence control the Stats.... do you know what im saying? This is- our food- after all! Please go and watch those movies and links I provided.... then come back and fill me in!

Its all very, very curious to me. Only time will tell. Only those of us who care enough can make any difference in how seriously this Gvmt. takes this disease. .....I could not live w/ myself now, knowing what i do, if I sat around doing nothing. If your more interested, or anyone for that matter, please do what i requested in my very first post- do your homework. Im not talking about what "Wikpedia" has to say.... The ugly, and possible real truth, which is out there.... I can provide more info if anyone is interested, but its a pretty easy google search. Come to some of the sites that the family members congregate at- and maybe youll see what i mean...

So- I am not trying to make anyone more paranoid, even though I might be considered "more paranoid then your average joe"...(and no i dont like to fly on airplanes, despite how safe they are but thats not b/c of a fear of death, i didnt go on my first flight until i was 16 b/c I just didnt take to it or like it at all, whereas my DH was flying since he was a tiny baby, doesnt mind it at all)... So, initally, I was Just basicaly explaining my personal choice to go organic, and I openend up a whole can o'worms...hehe....

Oh, and speaking of worms (ha).... your uncle - the fruit farmer- probobly doesnt use any pesticides or such on those apples, hence- the worms. I had a worm in my lettuce the other night, and my DH said- well - at least we know there aint any pesticides in that lettuce!! Ha.... Ill take the worms any day over the pesticides!!

Thank you for posting, and lets see if we cant agree to disagree over some of these things.

I want to point out a site which lists which states report or dont report CJD. We should ALL be proactive in making sure our states report this disease! That is an important factor in understanding it. Until the 1980's, and even today, Doctors dont know much about this disease. We need to change that!!!

http://members.aol.com/larmstr853/c.../report_cjd.htm

States Where CJD Diagnosis is Reportable by Law

Information on all US Individual State requirements for doctors who make a diagnosis of CJD. Report when necessary is made to the proper state health department.



State Status Comments
Arkansas Reportable Within 24 hours of diagnosis
Colorado Reportable Listed as TSE's reportable within 7 days
Connecticut Reportable For under 55 within 12 hours
Florida Reportable
Georgia Reportable Suspected within 7 days
Idaho Reportable
Massachusetts Reportable Effective Feb 2003
Mississippi Reportable
Missouri Reportable 3 days of first knowledge or suspicion
Nebraska Reportable Within 7 days
New Jersey Reportable
New York City
not CJD??? Reportable "Mad Cow Disease" listed
New York State Reportable
North Carolina Reportable
North Dakota Reportable Within 7 days
Ohio Reportable
Pennsylvania Reportable Within 7 days
Rhode Island Reportable Within 4 days
South Dakota Reportable Listed as TSE's reportable within 3 days
Texas Reportable
Utah Reportable Within 7 days of identification
Vermont Reportable Within 24 hours
Virginia Reportable
Wisconsin Reportable Voluntary -Soon to become officially reportable
Wyoming Reportable
Alabama Not Reportable
Alaska Not Reportable
Arizona Not Reportable Under Review
California Not Reportable
Delaware Not Reportable
District of Columbia Not Reportable
Hawaii Not Reportable
Illinois Not Reportable
Indiana Not Reportable
Iowa Not Reportable
Kansas Not Reportable
Kentucky Not Reportable
Louisiana Not Reportable
Maine Not Reportable
Maryland Not Reportable
Michigan Not Reportable
Minnesota Not Reportable
Montana Not Reportable
Nevada Not Reportable
New Hampshire Not Reportable
New Mexico Not Reportable
Oklahoma Not Reportable
Oregon Not Reportable
South Carolina Not Reportable
Tennessee Not Reportable
Washington Not Reportable Reportable at Doctor's discretion
West Virginia Not Reportable

In addition- have been doing some research on companies, after debating the whole organic vs. locally grown issue (presented in this article: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/a...5245-1,00.html)..

I just want to let you know Im going to begin researching the organic companies I purchase food/products from, and report back w/ my findings.

From the farms to the meatpackers I want to know more about my food and where its coming from, as i think we all should. (i say this after just reading that they are now spraying viruses on processed meats to get rid of bacteria. What?! (Dr. mercola site).

So, i will report back my findings here and on my blog

I also found This article which explains yet another problem with the quality of our meat. http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/23/diseased_meat.htm

I find it troubeling when the federal food inspector is outspoken in saying that he "eats very little meat"...

Delmer Jones, a federal food inspector for 41 years who lives in Renlap, Ala., said he's so revolted by the lowering of food wholesomeness standards that he doesn't buy meat at the supermarket anymore because he doesn't trust that it is safe to eat.

"I eat very little to no meat, but sardines and fish," said Jones, president of the National Joint Council of Meat Inspection Locals, a union of 7,000 meat inspectors nationwide affiliated with the American Federation of Government Employees. He said he's trying to get his wife to stop eating meat. "I've told her what she's eating."

.... ew- im not saying dont eat meat, but its more reason to google search the companies that you are buying from .... I am, and will be reporting my findings.

LowCarbNic, that is very smart of you to investigate for yourself - please keep us up to date when you find interesting things...

I feel compelled to post.

The reason her grandfather displayed symptoms is his age. This disease can have a FIFTY year incubation period.

Our children and grandchilrden are most at risk here.

GeneThera, Inc. has developed proprietary diagnostic assays for use in the agricultural and veterinary markets.

Specific assays for Chronic Wasting Disease among elk and deer and among cattle have been developed and are available currently on a limited basis.

E.coli which is found predominantly in cattle and Johnne’s disease also predominantly cattle and bison diagnostics are in development as well.

The largest impediment in work on Mad Cow Disease is our own USDA.

However, one company has been supremely inhibited in applying this vaccine and I will continue to post. Working and it's hard but I, too, recognize the seriousness of this issue.

The official name for Mad Cow Disease is bovine spongiform encephalopathy which is the original Mad Cow Disease before it mutated.

The original disease was transmitted through feed. The mutated strain is transferred from animal to animal and is known as BSAE or bovine spongiform amyloid encephalopathy. This is a mutation of significance and has the potential increase the transmission threat. There are additional threats associated with this mutated form of the disease.


Ask yourself, why have you not heard about a serious United States biotechnology company working on Mad Cow Disease?

USA Today has reported, in its article entitled: Mad Cow Watch Goes Blind:

Possibly due to pressure from large agribusiness, the United States has drastically cut back on the number of cows inspected for the BSE (USA Today, August 4, 2006) Also, the U.S. is prohibiting the sale of test kits that detect BSE. Sixty-five nations have full or partial restrictions on importing U.S. beef products because of concerns that U.S. testing lacks sufficient rigor. As a result, exports of U.S. beef declined from $3.8 billion in 2003, before the first mad cow was detected in the US, to $1.4 billion in 2005. (USA Today, August 4, 2006.)

(http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinio...-our-view_x.htm )

To make a long story short, no companies, no universities, no one in the United States can use animals for testing and trials for Mad Cow Disease other than the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA).

And they simply are not testing effectively or in any significant quantities. It is estimated that they are testing 40,000 animals a year which is less than one tenth of one percent. USA Today notes the tests are ineffective and inconclusive.

The point of significance here the USDA is testing a miniscule number of animals, their tests are not considered to be effective and they deny anyone, ANYONE ELSE the right to test for Mad Cow Disease in this country.

One company has found a way to continue their work in this area: Leave the United States for Clinical Trials!

For Dr. Milici and GeneThera that’s where Italy comes in. It is a match made in heaven. Dr. Milici is Italian and came to the United States in his twenties. In Italy every cow that is slaughter MUST be tested for Mad Cow Disease. Dr. Milici is ready for clinical trials and this is where his trials will take place. He will be able to conduct clinical trials on 2,000 animals a day.

This is serious, unique, and incredibly important work that has stumbled and faltered in the United States principally due to policital impediments.


Dr. Milici and his company, GeneThera, Inc. have found a way to move forward in spite of these federal impediments.

It gets worse.

BSE or Mad Cow Disease or bovine spongiform encephalopathy is a brain-wasting disorder which infected more than 180,000 cows and was blamed for more than 150 human deaths during a European outbreak that peaked in 1993.

Humans can get a related disease, variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, by eating meat contaminated with mad cow.

Bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, is a degenerative nerve disease in cattle that can lead to the fatal Creutzfeld-Jakob disease in humans.

Since nobody knows the extent of the infection in human it is critical to be able to test the blood of potentially variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease infected patients.

Scientist have now determined that Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease can be transmitted through contact with contaminated blood. It is therefore of paramount importantce to be able to screen blood supply banks for the presence of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.

How Serious is Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease?

Very.

From the Independent Newspapers Ireland Ltd (6/23/06) comes the following information:

The number of people infected with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease could be far higher than thought because of a longer incubation period than previously assumed, British scientists said in June of 2006.

They believe the time between infection with bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) and developing variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) could be more than 50 years.

The authors believe the incubation period for BSE prions in humans could be even longer than that seen in kuru because infection between different species typically takes longer than within the same species.

Prof Collinge said variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease patients identified so far “could represent a distinct genetic subpopulation with unusually short incubation periods for BSE. A human BSE epidemic may be multiphasic, and recent estimates of the size of the variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease epidemic based on uniform genetic susceptibility could be substantial underestimations.”

According to figures from the variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease surveillance unit in Edinburgh, 2,079 suspected cases of all types of CJD have been referred to them since 1990.

From the Birmingham Post (10/1/06) comes the following information:

But doctors believe nearly 4,000 more could be infected -although most have not yet developed symptoms. Latest research has found thousands more could develop variant-Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease because the incubation period could last into the middle of this century, far longer than previously thought.

And that means children born in the 1980s will have to live with the threat of developing variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease for the rest of their lives.

Last night Frances Hall, from the Human BSE Foundation, a victim support group, said: “We are sitting on a timebomb. “It’s so sad to think that other families could be left devastated in the way that mine and the other 120 in our group have been.”

This year marks the 20th anniversary since the Government identified BSE as a new disease in cows. Yet it took a further 10 years before the then British health secretary, Stephen Dorrell, admitted that government advisers believed that BSE was linked to variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. I

t is believed that BSE was caused by cows being given cheap feed created from the carcasses of sheep infected with a similar illness, called scarpie, in 1986. By 1996 the incurable brain disease had killed 10 people and it was feared that it could turn into an epidemic.

I'm sorry, but after I read this I couldn't go any further. The melting point of lead is only about 620 degrees Farenheit... Civil war and Revolutionary war soldiers used to melt it down in a simple camp fire to make bullets. After I read that, I just couldn't believe everything you wrote. I'm sorry.

Actually, you should have read further.

Confusing the melting point with the boiling point of lead does not invalidate research being conducted both in the United States and Europe.

That would be your loss.

Lead Symbol: Pb Atomic Number: 82
Atomic Mass: 207.2 amu
Melting Point: 327.5 °C (600.65 K, 621.5 °F)
Boiling Point: 1740.0 °C (2013.15 K, 3164.0 °F)