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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 11:19
neihu neihu is offline
New Member
Posts: 15
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 159/151/134 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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I agree, veggies are the best! I can't imagine low carbing without eating my veggies.
I don't even remember the last time I cooked veggies, lunch is a salad and dinner is a huge plate of raw veggies and dip to go with my meat. Yum!
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 13:46
LilPunkin's Avatar
LilPunkin LilPunkin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 483
 
Plan: Atkins all the way!
Stats: 192.8/181.2/150 Female 5 foot 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 27%
Location: Southeast USA
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Actually, in the original Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution (1972), Dr. Atkins states "No carbohydrate is required in the diet...it has been shown experimentally that human beings can survive in good health for months of a diet of meats and fats."

Now, I do get my veggies, because I like them and I can lose weight eating them, but I don't think you can totally discount a diet that doesn't include them.

JMHO
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 13:49
ssofian's Avatar
ssofian ssofian is offline
library diva
Posts: 1,788
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 242/156.5/130 Female 5'4"
BF:way/too/high
Progress: 76%
Location: Missouri
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As others have mentioned, I eat more veggies now that I ever did before- not just green veggies, but all varieties.

I've really gotten a taste for them. I even find myself craving them which I never thought I would.
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 13:51
LilPunkin's Avatar
LilPunkin LilPunkin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 483
 
Plan: Atkins all the way!
Stats: 192.8/181.2/150 Female 5 foot 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 27%
Location: Southeast USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee1

Salad veggies allowance is 3-4 cups on induction or up to ~400g if you want to weigh them. Or 200+200g if you are having "other" veggies.

Make sure you eat the full 4 cups! It sounds a lot, but it really isn;t! Trust me!


Which version do you have? I have the 1972 and 1999 versions and neither one allow 4 cups of veggies? Is yours a newer version?
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 13:53
MsTwacky's Avatar
MsTwacky MsTwacky is offline
WONJ#3
Posts: 7,576
 
Plan: 12 steps
Stats: 238/210/145 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Portland, OR
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Well there must have been a reason why he changed it. New research or enlightenment I'm sure motivates writing a newer version. Yes people can survive on just meat, however your vitamins would definetly be off.

I'm sure books used to say the world was flat but when they realized that wasn't true they updated the information.
no offense to your defense of the old version, and as a matter of fact I have seen the older version eating and it too included veggies. I do recall though that he updated that it wasn't a free for all as to amount of meats one could eat. The reason being obvious, you tell people they can eat meats and cheese til full and many people's version of full and how much they could eat was a lil extreme.

It seems that Atkins has had to revise a few times to give clarity to many who are extremists.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 13:56
MsTwacky's Avatar
MsTwacky MsTwacky is offline
WONJ#3
Posts: 7,576
 
Plan: 12 steps
Stats: 238/210/145 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Portland, OR
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I believe Gee was speaking of what the website now says.
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 14:00
LilPunkin's Avatar
LilPunkin LilPunkin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 483
 
Plan: Atkins all the way!
Stats: 192.8/181.2/150 Female 5 foot 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 27%
Location: Southeast USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTwacky
I believe Gee was speaking of what the website now says.


This is probably the case. But, what you have to remember is that Dr. Atkins sold Atkins Nutritionals in 1999, so anything written after that time is not the original Atkins plan. Also, Atkins Nutritionals has moved toward promoting processed foods which is also not the original idea that the good doctor had. I'm not sure HE ever changed his plan, I believe it was the company that did.

Oh...and no offence taken!
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 15:34
Tanikova's Avatar
Tanikova Tanikova is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 838
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 247/246/130 Female 5 foot 2.5 inches
BF:47%/32.0%/22.5%
Progress: 1%
Location: Norristown, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee1
LOL Sorry about that guys, I was just soooo worked up I had to post this. Didn;t wanna sound like mum : "you must eat your veggies honey, they are good for you! ". Aah, how many times did we hear that when we were little struggling with out portion of just 10 peas It turns out, our mums were actually right!

I was just twisting your tail a little.... I completely agree and when ever someone says something about how I do this I say I do it the correct way... I eat veggies and fruit... I am just careful about which ones and how much is all
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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 18:53
Gee1's Avatar
Gee1 Gee1 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 181/181/143 Female 174cm
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: London,UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPunkin
Which version do you have? I have the 1972 and 1999 versions and neither one allow 4 cups of veggies? Is yours a newer version?


Naah, its not from any book, they just recently changed it on Atkins website from 2-3 to 3-4 cups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPunkin
Quote:Originally Posted by MsTwacky
I believe Gee was speaking of what the website now says.

This is probably the case. But, what you have to remember is that Dr. Atkins sold Atkins Nutritionals in 1999, so anything written after that time is not the original Atkins plan. Also, Atkins Nutritionals has moved toward promoting processed foods which is also not the original idea that the good doctor had. I'm not sure HE ever changed his plan, I believe it was the company that did..?


ALL food today is processed. Probably even organic one

As for the changes, 1 cup of salad is NOT a big difference,(that's barely ~55g of iceberg lettuce) but its better for those who like to eat more, like me. But what is really important is that they have advised we eat more of something that is extremely HEALTHY: salads. Thumbs up for that one. Of course they didnt say you HAVE to eat full 4 cups but you can eat 3, or 2 cups salad+1 cup other veggies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPunkin
I do get my veggies, because I like them and I can lose weight eating them, but I don't think you can totally discount a diet that doesn't include them.?


Oh I very strongly disagree. Any diet must contain either fruit or vegetables, becuase of the vitamins,minerals and fibre intake. Meat has barely any, IF any vitamins, and poor mineral value. So I wouldn;t dare living on just meat, or any diet that propagades no veggies. I do like my health thank you So I will always advise people to NEVER exclude veggies(and/or fruit) on any diet.

Just think about it, how would you get your vitamin C if you only ate meat? And please don;t say from the bottle Arent the vit pills just "processed food" as well?

What I do really wonder is why do you seem to be resistant towards the veggies? Do you not like them? Any? its gotta be something there for you. Im sure you, like all of us, want to be thin as well as healthy.And really, you wont be without veggies and fruit. Of course if you dont believe me and others,you are welcome to research any sites or books to see just how many goodies are in vegetables, and just how important they are.

Lil something about Broccoli here:http://www.superfoodsnews.com/002597.html
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=64

Lil something about peppers:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?...odspice&dbid=50

Vegetables chart and nutrition values:
http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/vegchart.htm
http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/nutri...-nutrition.html
www.fitday.com


Why veggies are good for you:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T045300.asp
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ca...getables+&hl=en


canned veggies, storage and preparation
http://www.cannedveggies.org/learnmore/learnmore.htm

Vitamin lists and deficiencies:
http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00070520.html
http://www.a-nutritional-supplements.com/vitamin.htm

Fruits, Vegetables, and Cancer
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fruits.html

Finally I wanttoreccomendthis book to everyone:

"The food medicine bible"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...5692852-1236618

which I found extremely interesting, educational and helpfull. Food is listed in alfabeticalorder, as well as per desease, each has "possible benefit" listed,and number of facts.

IE these i learned from the book: did you knoww that Sweet (bell) peppers(red oryellow) contain 150% of RDA of Vit C,and is the best saurce of Vit C. Oranges don;t come even close! Also,did youknow that only strawberries, grapes and cherries contain "ellagic acid" which fights carcinogens from turning healthy cells into cancerous ones!

Happy reading!

Last edited by Gee1 : Sun, Jan-09-05 at 19:06.
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 19:13
selfcare's Avatar
selfcare selfcare is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 253
 
Plan: Atkins/CAD
Stats: 185/169/163 Female 5'2"
BF:45%/39%/29%
Progress: 73%
Location: Los Angeles
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Wow was I glad to find this thread! I am doing my first day of Induction today, and kinda hating it. Not for the obvious reasons of "missing carbs" (there's nothing specific I am craving) but just because I am hating my MEAT so much.

I thought I liked bacon and sausage. Turns out I like them in restaurants. Cooking them has been an exercise in comedy and the smoke alarm has gone off 2x already today. The highlight of my day was celery.

I think I need to find a way to do this that demphasizes cooking as much as possible. Grilling chicken on the George Forman and stirfrying veggies sounds about right. I just want to spend as little time as possible preparing and thinking about what I eat. Unfortunately in the past that has led me to a diet consisting of mostly Ramen and Doritos, which is also disgusting. Why the heck is this so hard? It's just eating, should be pretty basic. Why do I feel like such a dummy? Sorry for the ramble; I am litle lightheaded (1st day Induction remember)!
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 19:13
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,886
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Although I agree with you that vegetables are a very healthy addition to any diet, I'd just like to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

Have you ever heard of Vilhjalmur Stefansson? After living with the Inuit and subsisting on only meat and fish, he realised that one could be healthy on just such a diet. He then had himself and a colleague admitted to New York's Bellevue Hospital for 12 months, where they ate nothing but meat. Their health was proven to be excellent throughout this time. You can read the full story here: http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm
Just FYI, that website is owned and run by a member here, Kent.

Please note that I totally agree that vegetables are healthy, and in fact very, very desirable. I'm simply explaining that they are not vital for good health. And as you know, I personally eat 8 or 9 cups a day.

Rosebud
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 19:22
LilPunkin's Avatar
LilPunkin LilPunkin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 483
 
Plan: Atkins all the way!
Stats: 192.8/181.2/150 Female 5 foot 3 inches
BF:
Progress: 27%
Location: Southeast USA
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Thank you, Rosebud. That's great info!

I am NOT agains vegetables. As I stated, I also eat them. I just wanted to state that Dr. Atkins himself stated that they are not necessary for health. The web site is obviously run by a group other than Dr. Atkins (since he has passed on) and it just irritates me that they have taken the wonderfully simple plan that Dr. A came up with and have totally changed it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, Gee! That's what makes this board interesting! I just simply wanted to state Dr. Atkins position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Although I agree with you that vegetables are a very healthy addition to any diet, I'd just like to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

Have you ever heard of Vilhjalmur Stefansson? After living with the Inuit and subsisting on only meat and fish, he realised that one could be healthy on just such a diet. He then had himself and a colleague admitted to New York's Bellevue Hospital for 12 months, where they ate nothing but meat. Their health was proven to be excellent throughout this time. You can read the full story here: http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm
Just FYI, that website is owned and run by a member here, Kent.

Please note that I totally agree that vegetables are healthy, and in fact very, very desirable. I'm simply explaining that they are not vital for good health. And as you know, I personally eat 8 or 9 cups a day.

Rosebud
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 19:40
MsTwacky's Avatar
MsTwacky MsTwacky is offline
WONJ#3
Posts: 7,576
 
Plan: 12 steps
Stats: 238/210/145 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Portland, OR
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I eat 5 cups a day of veggies and a fruit in the morning all w/ protein of course. 2c at lunch a 3 cups at dinner. 2 c cooked and 3 c salad. But then again I am no longer doing Atkins although I was and read not only his but MANY of the low carb books. Believe me, the weight will still come off. Not many people got as fat as me eating veggies and fruit moderately with a protein 3 meals a day with nothing inbetween. I post my food in my journals if anyone is curious.

I try and stay away from processed foods so protein and veggies or for breakfast fruit and protein is the usual.
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  #29   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 19:46
Gee1's Avatar
Gee1 Gee1 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 181/181/143 Female 174cm
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: London,UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPunkin
I am NOT agains vegetables. As I stated, I also eat them. I just wanted to state that Dr. Atkins himself stated that they are not necessary for health. .



But he didnt say that!Not in the last 20 years at least In fact he said on many occasions that "Eat no more then 20g of carbs a day, most of which MUST come in the form of salad greens and other vegetables"

he also talked a lot about vitamins minerals, fibre, constipation and other things directly related to intake of veggies. Sorry, but he'd never say that veggies are "not nececery for health"! No way.

I admit I dont have the original book, but the other poster here said that she has and the book does say you have to eat veggies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPunkin
The web site is obviously run by a group other than Dr. Atkins (since he has passed on) and it just irritates me that they have taken the wonderfully simple plan that Dr. A came up with and have totally changed it. .



What exactly did they change so much since the original release? I haven;t got the original book.

Atkins only died in 2003, and was actively involved with diet till his death,so i dont think he'd support it if it was"totally changed" or in some way not to his liking. Also he was a cardiologist and a very intelligent man, I cannot possibly see a medical doctor dissapproving of fruit n veg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilPunkin
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, Gee! That's what makes this board interesting! I just simply wanted to state Dr. Atkins position. .



But this is the thing, its not MY opinion. I'm simply stating what Atkins said, adn agreeing with it, cos I can see nutritional benefits. He was definitly not against vegetables, or approved of not eating them.

Perhaps you can provide me with some quotes from the original book where Atkins had alleged different opinon? Saying that,original book is from what, 70s? Back then people believed Talidomid was OK as well Or was that late 60s. Still i would like toknow what he wrote.
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  #30   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 20:27
Gee1's Avatar
Gee1 Gee1 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 41
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 181/181/143 Female 174cm
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: London,UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Have you ever heard of Vilhjalmur Stefansson? After living with the Inuit and subsisting on only meat and fish, he realised that one could be healthy on just such a diet.


Hmmmm... yes I suppose there isnt much else to eat where Eskimos live but fish.

Let me think:well, we all know fish is excellent for you. Atkins advises eating more fish as well. It contains good fats, and less saturated fats,which lowers cholesterol, so they clearly wont die of a heart attack Fish also contains minerals, omega 3 fatty acids, and cod liver oil All excellent stuff. They also contain vitamins selenium, vitamin B1,B12,B6 and B3, vitamin D... Still I cant see how they get Vit A and C in and how come they don;t get the vitamin deficiency.Or don;t they?

"Vitamin A deficiency is common throughout the poorer parts of the world, and causes night blindness. Severe vitamin A deficiency can result in xerophthalamia, a disease which, if left untreated, results in total blindness."

I havent read the full article yell, but is this a comon issue in Eskimos?Is it mentioned anywhere?

"Vitamin C deficiency results in scurvy, a disease that involves bleeding.Signs of scurvy include tiredness, muscle weakness, joint and muscle aches, a rash on the legs, and bleeding gums. In the past, scurvy was common among sailors and other people deprived of fresh fruits and vegetables for long periods of time."

Again, this may be the case with Eskimos as well, but perhaps their bodies are strenghten in some way by the good ingredients in fish they eat?

Although your example has thought me that fish is even better then I thought, adn I will now introduce even more in my diet, I personally wouldn;t go without vegies unless I absolutely had to.(PlusI don;t like the taste of fish all that much ) The point about the veggies is that, maybe Eskimos' bodies have adopted to that way of living and climate,and can handle no veggies, our bodies havent, and we live a very different and much more poluted lifestyles.

Saying all that, there is a lot about nutrition scientists have not discovered yet, or think wrongly. Perhaps eating just fish forces body to create some goodies we dont even know about, which has an effect duplicating Vit C/others? Its possible. Fish is certanly not unhealthy in any way!

But with all my deep thinking, i can;t see any major benefits of eating red meat much. Apart from proteing I suppose and a few minerals. Saying that, I suppose it gives them enough calories through saturated fat, which helps isolate the body with a lil fat layer,adn give themenough energy for everyday tasks

perhaps Eskimo's metabolisam is higher due to cleaner and cold air,more O2, more good fats in diet, and lots of physical activity.

Oh I dunno, Im not a scientist

Final thought: how long is a lifespan in Eskimos? Who knows if in a long run this diet is not causing some irreperable damage, adn they traditionally die young-ish? Or, quite the opposite! Now that would besomething!
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