i have been lc'ing for almost 18 months. i still consider myself new to most of this. even though i have done well, and have kept the weight moving downward, i often feel like i'm just a few bites away from packing it all back on. i know that's not really true...i have managed to have a pancake now and then at my favorite breakfast place, a wonderful dessert at a friend's house last week, and various other examples. so far, i have been able to get right back on track with the very next meal. but that's because every single meal, every single snack, is just one thing at a time for me. i don't try to make long range decisions about my diet...and that works for me. i deal with it one step at a time! i hope to keep all those binges under control FOREVER

I don't say "never", but I wouldn't make a habit of it. If I were to go off-plan (and trust me, I have! ) it would have to be a rare treat, not something I can have every day.

I have fallen off the wagon before, since I haven't developed the strategies I need to keep it from becoming a downhill slide. When I get back on track and a lot closer to goal, I'm sure I will be able to build more foods back into my plan, but I don't see ever making a HABIT of eating sugar again.

I look at it this way.... the younger daughter of a friend of mine was diagnosed with diabetes at age 7 or 8. If you watch them in the store, you'll see this cute little girl READING LABELS and asking questions of her Mom about what would be a good choice, and what would make her get sick. I've seen her pass up cupcakes, cookies, and pretty much everything on Halloween! (her mom lets her trick or treat, but STRICTLY rations the treats as part of a meal) If a small child can look at a birthday-party cake and understand that certain foods just have to be off-limits entirely or only allowed in small, occasional tastes as part of a healthier plan....I certainly should be able to!

I love that quote! I'm saving it! Great perspective...man you guys are all so wise!!

Hi.

I agree with what the others have said.



Some people can - but have you tried it, and has it worked for you? Have you tried over and over again to "moderate"? How many times has "I'll just have a little" turned into a binge? If you have all this 'practice' and you still don't have it down pat, what makes you think it will be different in the future? (I'm assuming you have a history of binge/emotional eating... if that's not the case, ignore me. )

That's not to say it's completely impossible. If you have serious blood sugar issues like insulin resistance or hypoglycemia, low carbing can heal your metabolism over time. You'll be better able to handle carby treats. You can learn to deal with your emotions in a more productive way. You can have 'escape routes' for sugary treats: exercise, distraction, etc.

...but those are incomplete solutions to the problem(s).

I know it's daunting to think of giving something up forever. I don't think of it that way. I've put it this way instead: I've said goodbye to sugar and carb foods as part of my life. Today, I'm avoiding them. I'll be avoiding them tomorrow, too. All of these todays and tomorrows have added up to over two years so far.

Am I going to go the rest of my life without an Oreo cookie? No. I allow myself to have junk once in a while if and when I'm prepared to deal with the concequences. But you have to find your boundaries and be honest with yourself.

Good luck - interesting thread.

I've been reading a very interesting book called Fed Up! by Wendy Pyatt-Oliver.

It is basically about how deprivation leads to binging and also a sense that you "can't control youself". It sort of leads to a lack of faith in yourself. You think you can't be trusted around certain kinds of foods.

Anyway, her solution is to learn how to follow your body's subtle cues of physical hunger and satiation. It's not easy but it allows the eating of anything you want, as long as you are truly hungry.

I've been following it for a few weeks now and here is what I have discovered. By the way, I should say that I believe in LCing and I applaud everyone who is succeeding. I am not advocating that people eat whatever they want. But LCing was making my obsession with food worse and I decided to deal with that first. I think the LC (particularly Paleo) info on nutrition is wonderful.

Anyway, here's is what I have found:

1) It took me three weeks to begin to recognize physical hunger as being different from emotional hunger. It had been so long since I had eaten out of physical hunger. I had been eating for emotional reasons or on some schedule (every 3 hours and the like).

2) When I wait until I am physically hungry I tend to crave more nutritious food. I think somehow my body knows it needs some sustenance.

3) I think satiation is a mind thing and fullness is a body thing. I will find myself, as I eat, deciding that I am done because I just don't want to eat anymore and it seems to be something I recognize in my head. My body will not feel full but I just feel done.

4) It is really hard and I still have emotional eating binges but they are getting to be less and less and I am not thinking about food as much.

5) I do not seem to have bad reactions to any foods when I am not feeling guilty about eating them. Now this is just me but it was interesting. I had always thought I had a sensitivity to sugar but now, if I eat a cookie when I am truly hungry I feel fine. If I eat anything (low carb or not) when I am not really hungry I feel sick and floaty.

Anyway, Dr Pyatt-Oliver thinks that ones body knows what it needs at any given time but it takes practice and a certain stillness to really listen to it.

Just my thoughts.

-J

do you think any validity in the following:
body needs certain amount of calories, fat/protein/carb
when we deprive it DAY TO DAY, it will catch up to us by eating a food that we may /may not start out having any issues with, but then we overeat that food since the body really needs the nourishment
then we start to think that food will cause that reaction each time
so...
we go back to deprive DAY TO DAY
then the vicious cycle happens again
what IF we nourish day to day
will this avoid the overeating?
over 1 month, if we eat the equivalent calories spread out day to day as we would eat in 1 month of 6 days a week depriving and 1 day binging, could we stop the binging?
Do we have to follow history?
if we failed each time we had a little, does that mean we :
a. will never succeed?
or
b. we should give up trying?

I know moderation has NOT worked but if we look at it from a standpoint that a CONTROLLED moderate amount is physcologically better then deprivation/binge,
could it work going forward?

Anyone brave enough to try?

I think this is somewhat Dr Pyatt-Oliver tries to address in her book. But she does not even mention moderation or portion control. It is all about regaining your trust in yourself and your ability to eat only what you need once you learn to truly listen to your body. Her "plan" is based on the idea that once you do this you will not even need to think about moderation or portions or what you are eating becasue you will give your body only what it needs. But it only works if all your eating is in response to physical hunger and if you listen to your body and stop when satiated.

I find it to be a very tempting idea and I really want it to work because I am tired of depriving myself of certain foods, I am tired of trying to stick to some schedule of eating and most of all I am tired of my obsession with food.

I only overeat for emotional reasons. It has nothing to do with what I eat or carbs causing cravings or anything like that. I eat because it makes me feel good while I am eating. Because it numbs my brain somehow and I stop worrying about whatever I am worrying about. Let me tell you, since I have reduced my emotional eating so many things have been stirred up in my mental/emotional life. It's been hard but I am actually clearing up a bunch of stuff. I am being forced to face stuff instead of reaching for junk food or distracting myself strict eating plans (and in turn putting my mental focus on what to eat and when to eat)

Anyway, this is just me. Everyone is different.

I would agree if axing sugar and white flour was deprivation. It is not, because your body has zero requirement for it whatsoever. It may as well be a drug (and is, when you consider how highly refined it is.) There are essential amino acids (protein), fatty acids, vitamins and minerals; so for those nutrients, yes - you might overeat foods containing those nutrients if your body was starved for them. The "White Stuff" has virtually zero nutritional value.

I was speaking of overall calorie deprivation/ not of flour/sugar per se.

Also, how did you learn to follow your body's subtle cues of physical hunger and satiation?

Kristine, I agree with you that white flour/sugar is terrible stuff (on par with drugs). But since so many of us have grown up with it being used liberally in our diets, it still feels like a deprivation emotionally and mentally when you cut it out.

I am not sure what the solution is. All I know is this: I started letting myself eat whatever I wanted but only when I was truly hungry and at first I ate chips and candy but after one day I started wanting cheese and meat and vegetables. My body wanted more nutritious food. It's been weird, definitely because I thought I was a lost cause!

And the only time I have started really wanting to eat junk food again is when I have started thinking, "Well, I shouldn't eat that anymore anyway." And BAM I feel like I am depriving myself and I want it.

Anyway, I am working very hard right now on reaquainting myself with my body's natural cues. The only way I see to do that is to not add the extra stress of a strict diet. Once I get this mastered, I expect nutrition will be easier (BTW, I started the whole Paleo thing last year purely for nutritional reasons but the depriving myself of many foods made me fall on and off the wagon constantly and I wound up gaining 20 lbs--I was not overweight when I started!).

Bloke, the book I am reading right now by Dr. Pyatt-Oliver has a very detailed chapter with the steps to learn to follow your body's cues. It involves relaxing and tuning in to your body and how it is feeling. It also involved not ever eating in a state where you become disconnected from your food (i.e. like watching tv while eating).

-J

J- I am happy for you.. do not think you are a lost cause, though I feel that way too some days. I feel same way about sugar/flour.. feels not only like deprivation but a failure that I can not eat it like others. I will try and look at the book though each time I read a new book it sends me in another directon and I start a whole new plan
like
Fat Fallacy
Thin tastes Better

do you know of either?

I prefer what Dr Phil told the woman on his show who was whining because OTHER PEOPLE could eat what they wanted and not gain weight... He looked her in the eye and simply said "Well, that ain't YOU, is it?"

Some people can eat what they want. I'm not one of them. I'm learning to deal with it, and as I do...I want those things less.

Bloke, I know how you feel! I wound up finding this book after restarting my Paleo a month or so ago and just burning myself out with too much conflicting information. I just got tired of dieting (even though it is a WOL) and trying to be as healthy as possible. And ontop of it was my emotional eating issues.

I do believe that my emotional eating patterns and my obsession with pure foods and ultimate health whenever I started the Paleo plan bordered on an eating disorder. Sooooo, I started thinking trying to heal my relationship with food should be my first priority since it was getting in the way of any diet or WOL I attempted to start. And I found the Fed Up! book.

Really I was just tired of food playing a central role in my life. I wanted to find a way to just relax about it and not have it be an issue.

I think Dr Pyatt-Oliver's book is really good and if you do not have any metabolic issues or insulin resistant problems it could be a good way to go. It is a book about giving up dieting and learning to trust yourself. If you are someone who needs to be a special diet for health reasons (like diabetes or PCOS) not everything she suggests would apply. But there is a lot of good info in there overall.

I have never been overweight (until recently with my yo-yoing on the Paleo plan) so I have some room to give her method a try. And I really do want to heal myself around my issues with food.

I have not read either of those books you mentioned although I have heard of them.

Oh, Dr Pyatt-Oliver also has a website getfedup.com (I think). There's some info there but the book has so much more . . .

And I want to say again that I do believe in LCing and I did so much research when I was following the Paleo Diet. But it just wasn't working for me with all my issues with food. Instead I gained weight and my choloesterol numbers worsened. I do believe not every diet is right for everyone.

-J

our goals are similar.. move on with our lives
with food to live, not live for food
what is Paleo

J can you give me an idea of a sample menu of what you eat with FEDUP and how to calculate calorie need?