Oh yes, I could not live without Prime. I've had Prime for years, since all you got was free 2-day shipping, but now I love the streaming video too. Great for when the grandkids come over.

Was reading this from Woo yesterday, and wondered what the opinion here was on what she has to say on fasting.

http://itsthewooo.blogspot.co.uk/20...ut-fung-is.html

Interesting as always from the woo. Written back in mid January, before she knew JM lost half of weight as muscle, and Fung just posted his 7 day fast as OK for anyone overweight!
Totally agree with her "how does JM know he is IR?" The exact question I asked him at the LC support group...what is he testing? Dr Fung doesn't use the fasting insulin anymore...So how do you know the IR is healed? Really did not get an answer.
Need to re-read her points on very low insulin and lack of weight loss.

I would be more likely to pay attention to her if she didn't resort to name calling. It so offends me that I have no desire to listen to anything else she says.

Jean

Jean, I also object to the fact that (whoever the writer is) she? can neither spell nor type and is still being taken seriously. I don't like anything about the information/opinion offered or the name calling and ranting. Unable to take this seriously. Such a turnoff.

I like this part--she thinks Jimmy looks better since he's been fasting, better enough that she thinks he must be on testosterone.

I think we need a period of refeeding, and another dexa, before saying that he lost half of his weight on the fast as muscle.

I'd have to go back and watch the video for his dexa before the 30 days fast, but I seem to recall him saying at that point that his lean mass showed as being 10 pounds higher for lean mass than his previous dexa scan that he did after a long time on nutritional ketosis. He did two previous extended fasts, between these two dexa's, I think they were both 17 days long, with extended periods of refeeding after each, before that 30 day fast.

Nutritional ketosis, lean mass equals X
Seventeen day fast, refeed, seventeen day fast, refeed, lean mass=X+10
Thirty day fast, no refeed, lean mass equals X again.

I do think she might be right about his insulin sensitivity--his fat cells are likely fairly sensitive to insulin, this is a problem when fighting obesity. At the same time, these things are relative. Liz and Jey report fasting blood insulin levels in the low single digits, Jimmy's insulin levels are in the mid-teens. Not that high, but enough of a difference to be considered a risk factor, and a pretty high insulin level for a non-diabetic who's been on a ketogenic diet and done as much fasting as he has.

Very insulin sensitive fat cells might mean that only a very slight systemic insulin resistance (liver etc.) might be necessary for insulin to be high enough to prevent weight loss.

The Woo...that woman is really abrasive.

I kind of like reading stuff like that - It's a challenge and there is truth in there too. Also, if you look at the top of the page you'll have an idea of what you are getting into "One Extremely Disrespectful Zealot!" subtitle.

And she concludes;



() are mine above.

I don't consider extended IF a "quick way to loose weight". My exploration is to look at my mind and also see if there is value to my body according to measurable metrics. I'm trying to first, learn to eat sensibly and sustainably and second, see how IF affects it. I see in my future, if I'm granted one, that fasting will be a periodic occurrence, much like how it's used in a more religious context.

I will read more articles from this person, a bunch of interesting looking ones in the right side bar.

I have no problem with the idea of using IF or just plain water fasting as a quick way to lose weight. When appropriate.
Woo says;


Notice this says may sometimes be permanent.

http://www.drsharma.ca/will-dieting-make-you-fatter

Professor Abdul Dulloo is probably the biggest name when it comes to studying the concept of body fat overshoot caused by dieting, Dr. Sharma writes about Dulloo's ideas here.





One study Dulloo looked at to show this hyperphagia in lean people who have been dieting is the Ancel Keys headed Minnesota Starvation study. The guys in that study became downright skeletal. It wasn't fasting, it was semi-starvation. They simply didn't have the reserves for the degree of weightloss that they experienced.

This isn't about people who lose weight aggressively becoming eventually fatter when they refeed. It's about people who lose weight aggressively who never should have lost weight in the first place--basically, anorexics, or people in mid-century semi-starvation studies. People who dipped way too far into their lean mass, to the point where further dieting would have put their lives at risk.

"Fung is a menace who must be stopped"? Dang, this Woo chick doesn't pull any punches.

Woo is rude, abrasive and can goes way beyond normal civility at times (she is on a low dose of lithium) but she is a nurse and seems to have spent much of her young adult life researching obesity/figuring out her own. When she isn't insulting the other nutrition nutters (assume the e-thin is Carbsane?) she has thought-provoking ideas scattered about her posts. Other rants like hers I won't read, but she has nuggets in there worth ignoring the worst of the writing.
Her insistence that weight reduction leaves one super-sensitive to insulin, not insulin resistant, is more than a little intriguing. What if IR doesn't exist at all, or only at high BG levels? What if being insulin "deficient" messes up weight loss more than having too much? Without spending hours looking at the research she references, I do want to know more about this.

About the DEXA...Dr Westman mentioned he doesn't use it because the lean mass number includes inter-muscular water and the hydration status impacts results. So maybe that 10 pound muscle loss was really only 6? He also mentioned at that Tampa metabolism conference some early research that IR can be explained through BG levels...so "stay tuned".
Lee added Woo's post the same day as Dr Fung's final fasting video, encouraging 7 day fasts without a whole lot of cautions about who should use it. I was a bit turned off by some of his comments and the slick way it was presented myself. So for various reasons, woo's thoughts on fasting are worth considering.
The Woo also comments as Jane Plain around the LC world.

In my opinion she is beyond rude and abrasive. I don't care what psyoactive drugs she uses, she is responsible for what she says. She uses the term "retard" which is considered hate speech by the community of people with intellectual disabilities, their friends and supporters. They call it the "r" word and have a campaign to stop its use

http://www.r-word.org

and she compares Jason Fung to the Nazis, another rhetorical tactic which is cruel and without merit. The fact that she calls herself disrespectful doesn't make it ok for her to be disrespectful just like calling oneself a bigot doesn't make it ok to be a bigot.

She may very well have interesting and worthwhile ideas. I am sickened by her lack of civil discourse and can't go beyond how offensive I find her.

Jean

Marty Kendall has a new article up:
http://optimisingnutrition.com/2016...s-a-fuel-gauge/


I do like the idea of a fuel gauge.

Has anyone here with type 2 diabetes done both a 3 day or longer water fast and AFD for there diabetes. Did the longer fast help you more ?

I'm always interested in ideas that challenge my current viewpoint (I'm a big fan of IF and would do more prolonged fasting if I didn't have an eating disorder - sadly long fasts are a no-no for me), and having spent my adult life working with people with mental health problems, personality disorders and learning difficulties, I barely notice the abrasiveness any more. It's great to have everyone weigh in on alternative viewpoints, as there are so many smart people here

And I'll have to go back and read, but I thought she said 'ketard' whatever that's supposed to mean. I also suspect at least some of the spelling is deliberately wrong.