Reading this thread, I just had a aha moment. Even though Im eating low carb, sometimes when I eat a high-protein lunch, I get those little dots in my eyes, like when I was preggo and had gestational diabetes. That was my insulin responding, wasnt it?

I cant imagine eating that many carbs, but I can certainly see upping the veggies and even some berries. Time to start using fitday again!

While I mentioned earlier in this thread that I eat in a similar fashion, I just don't think I could go through my days measuring and counting everything and trying to hard to add such enormous amounts of fat. I make sure to eat fat with my meals everyday, and I don't overeat the protein, or at least not normally. All the measuring and more fat adding would drive me batty. Fat fills me up, but I think I might even get sick eating as much as this diet calls for.

Unfortunately it's not an issue of ratios, nor an issue of what you want to weigh. Once your husband downloads the program and you plug in your numbers (height needs to be in centimeters, not inches, and your weight needs to be in kilograms, not pounds) -- you'll get back exact numbers of grams you should eat of protein, fat and net carbs daily based on your "due weight" or what you should weigh. Let us know how it goes...

Lisa

I put in 1 oz of PB, and a little Da Vinci syrup or liquid splenda to about 2 oz Green Yogurt (cheese, it's fattier than normal greek yogurt). It's really good.

I'll have to try the berries! Or maybe using raspberry Da Vinci syrup would do it!

I hear you. The program won't suit everyone, that's for sure!

Lisa

Yeah, dairy usually stops me up badly but so far it hasn't been much of an issue. In fact, things are kind of crazy down there today. *sigh*

But I definitely look fatter in the stomach area. That scares me. Since I gave up coffee I'd been looking a lot slimmer in the stomach. Well, I can give this two solid weeks at least. I'm going to try to scale back on the protein even more. My bacon is getting lonely.

It's a thought I have that dairy and I just don't get along... some people gain weight due to their food intolerances. I just can't quite get behind the idea of eating that much fat in the form of non-dairy fat.... yikes. Especially since coconut gives me diarrhea if I have too much.

I'm getting that weird feeling I get when I eat high fat of being hungry yet full at the same time.

I find that butter emulsifies really well in microwaved scrambled eggs - 2T butter & 3 eggs end up with a soufflé texture, not floating in grease like if you cook them in a pan on top of the stove (I also like a 90-second breakfast with minimal cleanup). And I have 1-4T of unsalted macadamia nut butter most days. Other than that I tend to make casseroles where I put the amount of fatty meat and veggies in my recipe software and then figure out how much fat I need to add. Often a mix of CO, OO, cream, butter mayo, whatever I have around. Veggies like cauliflower tend to soak up oil better than others, and a mix of fats ends up less greasy than 100% lard, for instance.

Kris - a great idea, and I'm jealous that you have access to what I'm sure are the best macadamia nuts on the planet.

Here's another idea for what to do with them that will actually UP the fat content. I'm lucky enough to live near a nut factory (no jokes please. ) that is willing to sell to the public for cash, and they sell 'pieces' (really halves, which are fine by me) for $5.50 a pound. I have about 3 pounds sitting in the freezer at any one time.

-- Put a small frying pan on medium heat. Add a tbls of coconut oil. When warm, but not hot, add a drop of two of liquid splenda right into the melted oil (or the AS of your choice). Add 8 ounces of raw macadamia and let them turn golden as you gently shake the pan. Just before you think they're done, add a tbls of butter and let it coat the nuts. Pour nuts into a bowl (you want to stop the cooking process), and sprinkle with vanilla salt (search on my posts to find the recipe) and, if desired -- and I always desire -- a little chipotle powder. Stir well to coat; let sit out for a few hours to completely cool. Store.

I then add a bit more oil and butter to the pan, two more drops of LS and add about 1/2 cup of unsweetened shredded coconut to toast. I set that aside when done (no salt or chipotle) and sprinkle it over cheesecake or yogurt or add to my toasted coconut ice-cream.

The macadamias are both sweet and salty and absolutely fabulous. I crunch some up in my mortar and pestle to sprinkle over yogurt or even dishes I want crunch in, like my vanilla ice-cream. Yes (she said with a sigh), eating fat is NOT a problem for me.


This is great to hear - and yes - it would be sweet. I've experienced the same 'adjustment' to the lower protein as well. I ate 39 animal protein grams yesterday, and felt wonderful and not deprived at all. And I could have gone up to 58g. I could happily eat this way forever.

Lisa - keeping all digits crossed for you.

I'm the opposite - I feel draggy on a low protein breakfast, so I like to get most of my protein for breakfast & lunch and go lighter on dinner. Unless I am going to a steakhouse for dinner, then lunch is my lower-protein meal.

Ok, why do we want to stay OUT of ketosis?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. If I can't eat dairy, I have to eat non-dairy sources of fat and I'm not real happy with that. I don't object to greasiness, it's just non-dairy fats aren't much fun to try to consume 150g of them...

I think I have issues with dairy sometimes myself, but that's usually cheeses, yogurts, etc. Butter is generally fine. Things like alfredo sauces seem to befine too. Maybe you can at least have things like that! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you no dairy issues.

Well, I think I managed pretty well for today! My menu today was:

Breakfast:
FAGE Greek full-fat yogurt
1/3 cup organic strawberries
1/2 cup pine nuts

Lunch:
leftover SF cheesecake which was made from (pretty much, based on the portion size I had)
2 oz cream cheese
1/2 egg
2 T heavy cream
1 tsp SugarTwin liquid
and the crust:
2 tbsp almond meal
1 tbsp shredded coconut
4 tsp coconut oil
1/2 tsp butter
1/4 tsp unsweetened cocoa powder

Dinner:
1/2 cup steamed green beans with 2 tsp butter and 1 tsp sesame seeds
1/2 cup creamed spinach (spinach, heavy cream, a little cheddar, nutmeg, salt)
large green salad made with about 2 1/2 cups arugala, 3 tbsp heart-of-palm, 2 tbsp tomato chunks, 2 tsp crumbled bacon, 1.5 oz smoked salmon, and a dressing made from 3 tbsp homemade mayo, 2 tbsp sesame tahini, and some lime juice and soy sauce.

That all worked out to
P: 74g
F: 200g
NC: 39g

My "numbers" (using month 2 as Lisa suggested) are for:
P: 52-64g
F: 155-219
NC: 39-52

My protein looks a bit "over" but Lifeform does not give you a way to differentiate between animal and non-animal protein. So I think if I count just the animal protein I'm right on the money pretty much. The pine nuts alone are enough to bump my protein up. And the fat and carbs look good too. In fact I even still have a little fat/carb allowance there if I wanted. Gee, a macadamia nut or two would taste good right now. :lol" well off to try to buy new battteries for my kitchen scale.

I know what you mean, that's why I try to sneak in a little extra fat wherever I can. Luckily I can eat nuts & mayo. I've also experimented with lower casein cheezes, like Swiss (typically the hard cheeses, not the soft ones). I can eat some once in a while without stuffing up, but not every day.

Hi,

I was just visiting these boards to find some information for my husband (who's recently started on Atkins), and was pleasantly surprised to see this thread. I've been following the principles of Dr. Kwasniewski's "Optimal Nutrition" for the past several months, though I've had to add extra protein and carbs, as I'm pregnant. Even with these modifications, ON has really improved my overall health and energy level, and I'm sure it will enable me to go back to my ideal weight very quickly after the baby is born. This is my fourth pregnancy, and I've had fewer problems and discomforts than with the previous ones. I'm sure that my new way of eating has a lot to do with this.

If you're serious about giving this diet a try, I'd strongly recommend buying the books, or at least following the advice of someone who's read them. There seems to be some confusion on this thread as to what ON is all about. The ratio isn't the only thing that's important; the types of foods are also supposed to be selected according to "Optimal" principles. If you're just using the ratio that you've calculated, and eating whatever foods you find most appetizing or convenient (as seems to be the case with most who have posted here), then you probably aren't doing ON, and you aren't necessarily going to be successful.

For instance:

- Fruits, vegetables, and nuts aren't considered to be very good foods. It's okay to have them in small amounts, but the the concept of "eating plenty of vegetables" is completely against Dr. K's way of thinking.

- Organ meats are an essential part of the diet. I know many Americans find them revolting, but there's really no way of getting around this. It's also important to make stock from bones, and use it to prepare soups. These foods are rich in important vitamins, minerals, and amino acids, some of which aren't abundant in muscle meat or dairy products. They've been a central part of the diet of all societies who've eaten predominantly high-fat animal foods.

(As a side note, it's my understanding that that one of the modern LC diabetes diets -- sorry, the name escapes me right now -- also involves eating liver, kidney, and bone marrow. I'm not sure if the author came up with this independently, or got it from Dr. K.)

- Several eggs should be eaten each day, and it's best if some of the yolks can be raw or lightly cooked. If you end up with leftover whites, they can be beaten, mixed with wheat flour or nut flour, and baked to make a sort of bread.

For those who don't have access to the books (which can be readily ordered from the publisher, though they're fairly expensive), much of of the above information is clearly laid out on this introductory web page. It's especially important to read the sample recipes that are linked to from that page. You don't have to replicate them exactly -- I don't even know where I'd go about finding some of the ingredients! -- but there should be some similarity in terms of the types and proportions of different foods (meat, broth, organs, dairy, eggs, vegetables, etc.). Of everyone who's posted on this thread, the person who's eating the hog jowls seems to be the closest to this menu plan, even without doing any measurements.

As several people have noted, this is a hard diet to follow if you have to eat out a lot. This is why my husband has chosen to do Atkins for now; he has to travel a fair amount on business, and isn't confident that he could put together an "optimal" meal while on the road. Still, you won't go too far wrong if you just order meat and vegetables (or eggs and home fries), eat a very small portion, and drench it in a couple of tablespoons of butter. This sort of thing gets a lot easier once you've been on the diet for a while; at that point, you can pretty much go by your eyes and your appetite, rather than having to measure and calculate everything.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to more discussion of Dr. Kwasniewski's ideas, and to hearing about how the diet is working for those who have tried it. It's a thrill for me to find so many people who are interested in this way of eating.