For the big first carb loading day, here are some good foods to make all the pigging out easy.

- Corn flakes: Low in sugar and 28 grams a bowl (not including milk )
- Blueberry bagel: 51 Grams carbs!!! my bagels were a godsend, yummy and easy carbs.
- Subway sandwhiches footlongs with white bread! Sweet onion chicken teriyaki is awesome in taste and the numbers
- Taco bell beef tacos are good too 10P 20C 10F grams pr taco. 4 has 40P 80C 40F takes up half your fat content for the day but almost 20% of your carbs too
- White bread by itself is pretty tasty, fluffy easy to eat.
- Garlic and oregano (or parsley) Mashed potatoes although all the starch will bog you down huge if you eat too many. Low fat and good colesterol smart start margarine is what I used in the mix.

Day 2 low glycemic is easy.
- 100% pure not fake and not from concentrate REAL apple juice. 29 carbs per glass!! easy to regulate.
- white pasta and pasta sauce

--between these 2 you can be easily set. I was..huge freakin 2 cup plate of pasta tho, and 3 glasses apple juice.

I hope that helps guys!!

I worked out last night Sunday night. My first night working out since re-induction after carb load. I tested my bodyfat %age and it read 23.5 but had several differing readings as my water readings are all over the map since the carb load. I re-tested this morning. WHAT THE?!?! It read 20%, 17.8% 18% 18% 18% 18% WHAT THE?? I dont know what to think. Either the thing is broken, or the after-workout tests were messing it up, or the late night tests, or else first thing in the morning messes it up. I was 173.6lbs in the morning and was 174.8 last night. The weight measure was a steady 173.6 and the weight part never fluctuates. I wear only undies on the scale to make sure there are no discrepancies as well. (sorry if thats tmi).
Man I sure hope this is true and I am 18% bodyfat. I think its not that unrealistic given how I look but to go from 23.5 the night before to 18 the next morning?? I dont believe that one second. Something is fishy here. Something is artificially causing these readings to come back like they are.

There must be an answer to this. In the past I have had some wierd caliper/vs electode readings as well. Something is causing this, there must be a few things that can set off your measurement. i will try to figure out what they are and I will ask the trainers in the gym. They always say to drink a ton of water before you check on the scale too. Maybe after the gym and at night is when I am most dehydrated from sweating, cardio etc. I had 3 glasses of water before bed so maybe I really am 18% and am always dehydrated after my workouts. I will test both in the morning and at night now. I will even try to test mid day a few times when I can.

I notice a huge difference in my physique but i find it hard to believe i could have lost that much fat along the process. I started at 29.8% bodyfat and to think I am 18% now means a loss of 18.5 pounds of fat in 1.5 months. I guess its possible but I will be in shock if thats true, it just doesnt seem like that big of a difference to me. Big but not that big.

The future tests will figure this out i think. Damn that scale....fricken tease!!!

I hope I get lucky. Either way I will be 18% in 5-6 weeks even if I truely am 23.5 right now. I will also get tested both on calipers and the electrodes at my gym either tonight or tomorrow for more evidence.

Oh by the way, you can get one of those scales for $25 bucks now at walmart.com

Check it out!

I am going to try to max my 20 grams of carbos per day for induction. I am doing this to ensure that my induction lasts as long as possible in between carb-loading. The longer it lasts, and the more glycogen you have, prevents muscle loss and should ensure maximum fat loss. It would probably be a good idea to limit carbs to as low as possible for 3 days after carb-loading to really make sure induction gets kicked along. Then boost to 20/day.

The challenge with atkins is you have to eat like 30-40 cups of veggies in a day to get any carbs at all. Still you wont have 20. We need to figure out what foods we can eat that are atkins friendly and provide some carbs. i am hoping 100% pure apple juice can do it, many atkins geeks have given me major shit over this one tho telling me blindly "its all sugar" "its not real juice" or other blindsighted nonsense. I am talking about 100% REAL not from concentrate nothing added freshly squeezed real apple juice. You can get 10 grams of carbos from 1/3rd of a glass. If you eat 10 normally in a day, voila there is your 20. I see this as a good way to optimize for the purpose of keeping glycogen stores good for high intensity training.

I did this before, but used to drink 1-2 glasses a day. This is when I lost the MOST fat on atkins. All these naysayers just shit on me the whole time never even listening to me when I would say it was real juice. They refused to provide any info at all on why the juice was bad for induction and were blind just saying...ITS NOT APPROVED!!! I would ask why and they would not listen and only shit on me some more. They are thinking inside the blind box, not listening to any ideas, and being purely ignorant. (they said I was, even though I was the one asking all the questions and posting the new ideas.) they sounded just like racists saying blacks are lower class, and when someone would ask them why they would get mad, yelling "THEY JUST ARE!!!!!!" ....in my view Ignorance is jumping off the bridge when you friend says without asking any questions.

I will post how many veggies you have to eat to get 20 grams carbs with veggies.
My protein drinks give me 12 a day so I need 8 more. If I can not find another way to do this, I will use apple juice as one 3rd of a glass and 8 carbos shouldnt kill my induction I wouldnt imagine. The naysayers would have a hissy over this tho.

Wow there are actually more carbs in some approved veggies then I thought.
Size Net Carbs
Dried Mushrooms 2 tbs 6.0
Zuchinni 1 (med) 3.3
Tomatoes 0.5 cup 2.6
Peppers 0.5 cup 3.4
Cucumber 1 (med) 2.8
Broccoli 0.5 cup 1.7

Wow dried mushrooms are a carbo-hit! only 3 tablespoons for 9 carbos
1.5 cup chopped peppers gets 10 grams carbs too! I can add these to my chicken and beef meals. thats a lot of peppers but i can have peppers cut into sticks, finger food Looks like Im going shopping

I like that spicy mustard sauce too, a great spicy garnish to flavor up any foods with NO cals and NO carbs Its almost like mayo with no fat either.

Thank goodness for the efficiency characteristic of the men from mars

The proper name is either:

Spicy brown mustard, OR Dijionaisse
this is great with chicken and cheese!

Sodium can make you retain water as well, but i am not sure how it affects your measurable body fat %age. You can find lots of sodium in soda. Soda is known to dehydrate you tho, so i would imagine drinking a lot of soda would hinder muscle growth, hinder metabolism of foods, and possibly artificially heighten your body fat %age as you retain water. The trainers always say before you come in for body fat testing do not have sodium, but drink a lot of water. Therefore it must be good to drink water, but not retain it. This makes sense, but where the heck is your body "retaining" the water? if not in your muscles, where??? wierd. If anyone has the answer to this please post it as it will answer some questions here.

I have quit drinking diet soda now as for this reason and have switched to lemon water. I will ask my trainers about this and post what I find out.

I wonder if it is ok by atkins to drink gatorade and drinks like that. they have carbos in them. hmmm...i wonder if they are considered processed or not. interesting. i wonder also if propel fitness water is okay, does anyone know what they are sweetened with?

Champ, I have been reading your posts with interest and I think you're on to something with glycogen replacement. But here's some info that you may find useful. First, a word of caution about the scales that measure body fat. These scales use the technology known as "electrical impedance," also known as "bioimpedance," to measure body fat. It requires you to be fully, and I mean FULLY, hydrated, because it uses the water in your body to conduct the small amount of current that is passing through. Since only the water in your body will conduct the current, it figures out, in conjunction with the scale, what percentage is fat and what percentage is muscle/bones/blood - in other words, everything ELSE that isn't fat. Therefore, since our hydration levels vary all over the map throughout the course of a day, getting an accurate reading can be difficult, if not impossible. When I used to use this method at my local health departments, it ALWAYS said I was dehydrated (not clinically dehydrated, just dehydrated for the purposes of the test), no matter that I always drank a gallon of water well before the test! It was so frustrating.

As you probably know, underwater measuring for body fat used to be the "gold standard." But it has problems, too: few places have it (because it's very expensive), very few people can expel enough air from their lungs and hold their breath long enough to get an accurate reading, air trapped in your hair, your swimsuit, even your gut (so no broccoli!) can skew the results. And calipers are not terribly reliable, either, as technique can vary from person to person.

Lately, I've been having my body fat measured used infrared measurements at the bicep. This is much more efficient, because it doesn't rely on hydration. This method is offered by the various health departments in the area where I live (costs $3 or $4 a pop). The last time I did it, I actually drove from one location immediately to the next to see how close the readings would be to each other. They were within a couple of tenths of a percentage point of the same reading - not percentage points, TENTHS of a percentage point. So I'd say that accuracy is pretty good, wouldn't you?

But this probably doesn't help you too much, because you're relying so much on your home scale. I'd say it might be time to use the scale for weight only and find a reputable place to do the infrared readings once a week (or whatever time frame works best for you). And take your measurements. And listen to your body - you wrote very convincingly about how your post-carb loading workouts were amazing in duration, increased weights, motivation, focus, etc. I know it's tempting to use your scale for body fat %age, but I think it's doing you a disservice. You know perfectly well (you said it yourself) that the numbers you're getting are funky, so I wouldn't waste any more emotional time with them.

As to WHY people give you crap for drinking pure apple juice, here's a thought: apple juice by itself is pure fructose, which is high glycemic, I've read. An apple, a whole apple, is different, because you have the fiber of the skin and the flesh to reduce the glycemic effect. But apple juice is just fruit sugar. Maybe that's why "it's not permitted" under Atkins? I don't do Atkins myself, but I remember reading that in South Beach...

Hope all this helps. Hang in there - you're doing a great job and you're well on your way to your goal!!

Michelle

Very interesting, but I wonder, we store fat so differently from one body to the next, would this really be accurate for someone who stores a lot of fat below the belly button (i.e. thighs, butt and so on)?

Nancy, I know just what you mean, as that is where I tend to carry my fat. However, here is a quotation from an abstract on the subject:

<The measurement is taken at the mid-point of the dominant bicep. Years of research with the U.S.D.A. has shown that taking measurements at all of the anatomical sites that are recommended with skinfold calipers will not significantly improve the accuracy of the technology. Even though men carry most of their body fat in their abdomen area and women carry most of their fat in their thigh region, measurements taken solely in these regions would significantly over-estimate total body fatness because they tend to be the highest concentrations of fat in the body and therefore are not representative of the entire body. As body fat is gained or lost, the distribution of fat/lean mass will change at the midpoint of the bicep based on the premise that you can not gain or lose fat in site specific areas-fat is gained or lost throughout the body.

Since 1984, there has been an abundance of research supporting the USDA's findings. Infrared measurements from the biceps have been the primary site shown to correlate best with a criterion method (Conway and Norris, 1986, Elia et. al., 1990; Gullstrand). Possible reasons are best explained as Gullstrand hypothesized, "The bicep site was most representative of whole body fat"; or as Conway and Norris hypothesized, "The combination of skin thickness and subcutaneous fat thickness at the biceps allows for optimal penetration and interactance of the low level of infrared radiation".

This is from this site: http://www.futrex.com/nir.html (sorry if I didn't put in the link right). In the interest of full disclosure, this is the abstract from the company that makes the device. But they have more than ample citation at the bottom of the article. You can also google "infrared measurement at the bicep" for more information.

Hope this helps!
Michelle

My Ketos are showing up again, a trace but a definite trace and not neutral anymore, even starting to lean toward a small reading as well on the scale.

I figured out why it was showing 18% I accidentally stepped on the button that changes my scale to athlete setting and it reads 18% for me when I do that. See what I mean? I knew it was a tease! Now Im wondering why it would read less for an athlete, what the heck does it base THAT on?

As much as I would like to say I'm an athlete, once I do some cardio I quickly realize I am not. I am up to 30 mins capacility in 2 split sessions before and after my workout, 10 mins before and 20 after, but I sure need more of it. I remember when I lost the most out of all my dieting sessions I was doing very frequent and long cardio sessions. Mostly running or elliptical.

I have got to get my cardio up again and I will now that I realize this. 30 mins a day should do it 7 days a week Ill take a rest for a day or so when I stiffen up hehe. It also works good to vary between runing and elliptical and other forms of cardio as you work different muscles and can recover and rest a bit. Elliptical seems to be the easiest cardio to do, but burns as much as running almost. (so the machines say) personally I think running will burn more and thats why I try to do as much of it as possible. It sure is harder.

I have now succesffully gone from a stalled fat loss at 23.5% bodyfat, through the maxed carbo-load, stopping ketosis in the process, then restarting ketosis again successfully right after like they say it would.

I have now dropped to 23% bodyfat so successfully I have dropped, and have gained muscle since the start of the carb-load phase

I figure I can drop 1% body fat per week which is 1.75 pounds of fat. This seems a good pace as that means 100 pounds per year which seems to be in line with those huge success stories. (I only have 24 pounds fat to lose, except I dont want to lose weight). At this pace, at the end of my 12 week plan april 15th, I should be near 12% bodyfat representing a 24 pound fat loss I am trying to gain muscle at the same time and might have to carb-load more then possible to accomplish this in fat loss terms, but if I am off a little bit, I will still look good. I want to at least minimum hit 16% bodyfat at 170 pounds or more by then.

I will try to measure today and post my decreases over last time. I am measuring every 2 weeks about but will start once a week minimum..(more motivating to see drops)

Thanks dude for your suggestion on the bicep bodyfat testing, I will definitely find somewhere to go for that and try it and see. I might check 2 places as well if the numbers are off what my scale says.

I know that these kinds of electrode scales are not perfect, but they help you track progress, set goals, understand where your body is at composition wise, and they do normally show pretty steady levels. The carb-loading really threw it off tho for sure, however if I tested a whole bunch of times in a row, 8 say, I just took the first one that came up 3 times as being the most accurate. Only took 2 mins to do it 8 times.This gives me a good tracking of progress. It is soo motivating to look forward to it slowly ticking down and anytime I have the opportunity to cheat I think of my bodyfat measure now right away and my discipline has become hard as rock. Atkins becomes a lot easier over time, you get used to it and then its no big deal and it gets even more motivating as your discipline improves and you start to KNOW that you will hit your goals.

Maxing 20 grabs carbs for max lasting glycogen/ketosis phase:
Atkins does not like blood sugar spikes and that is the reason it "seems to me" that they do not want me drinking apple juice. Even tho it is pure sugar, I can not see how 8-10 grams will boost my blood sugar enough to make a difference but since i am not sure, and since I have now found that 3 tablespoons of dried mushrooms have 9 grams carbs, I am going to use that instead of apple juice. Dried shroomies wont be too tasty Im sure, but they will make great snacks smothered in cheddar cheese mmm. And I only have to eat like 4 or 5 anyway.

If anyone can find any good info or articles on how fast the body burns through its glycogen stores, please post them here as i think this is huge for us to create the efficient frontier.

Having good glycogen stores will allow for maximum muscle retention, still make it possible for muscle gains, and unlimited fat loss at the same time due to the muscles not being cannibalized triggering stalling. I can see how once the body is completely glycogen depleted, it goes into starvation, teardown mode, but at the same time it will not lose fat if you have an oversupply of it.
i think that everything revolves around this in the ketosis process or at least it has a HUGE amount to do with atkins/fat loss, muscle retention/depletion etc. The science and theory both make perfect sense.

Eating protein alone is definitely not enough for your body to retain and gain muscle. It will need more then just the protein sources. It is WAY MORE then just a caloric battle here folks. Just look at all the helpful supplements etc for more evidence of that. I wonder if there is a glycogen test somewhere...they have blood glucose testing for diabetics...hmmm. I will ask my doctor.

I sure can tell the difference between being low-to-empty on glycogen and being full of it tho, WOW what a huge and un-missable difference. 4 straight days of strength increases in the gym now, this is unreal!! last nigth I was like...NO WAY!!! because I moved up plates to see if I could lift more and I could with the same level of difficulty as prior to the carb-loading. The crazy thing was is I had already done this...The last 3 TIMES BEFORE!!! It was mindboggling, like I was in the twilight zone or something...how the hell could I go from 45s on decline dumbell bench to 50s the next day to 55s the next to 60s the next, and the 60s were as easy as the 45s were 4 days ago. WTF!!?! 33% increase in strength. Im baffled, the really crazy thing is I KNOW I could hit 65-70s (each side btw) tomorrow. This is over a 50% strength gain in 6 days if I do. (no needle in my ass folks)
I moved up crazy like this on squats, 2-45 plates to 4 each side (double) Rear delt/lat pull, 40% increase. lat pull downs 40% from 90 to 130. Leg extension from 120 to 145. 20% increase. Ab crunches from 20-25 to 40-45 reps each set of 3 with much better curl and posture, biceps from 25 to 40 pound curls, tricep ext from 10-15 to 25 lbs. Bench up 30% and on and on...

Who knows, maybe something about carb-loading increases testosterone production, what the heck else could explain such huge strength gains...or was I really THAT glycogen depleted?? I find these gains phenomenal. Makes me want to just carb-out all the time well almost.

Okay well I have to work, seeya soon! Keep posting and helping!

Most people dieting or that need to diet DO NOT REALIZE the most important thing about good body shape and eating.

Most people like this, (ill refer to them as us blimps..hehe) blimps, look at the skinnies and say, OH MY GOD..how can you eat so much and never gain? thats not fair, she can eat ice cream and junk and i cant!!!

The thing is..the easiest way to have a good body for life is to eat at your maintenance level and NOTHING MORE! If you do and you keep your excersize enough to maintain your current metabolism level, you will never gain fat, will be able to eat what you want (within your maintenance level of course) and will always look good!

However, for us blimps who have eaten more then our maintenance, and have let our metabolisms slip to where we have gained fat...now we have to work even harder. Not only do we have to eat to maintain our CURRENT level of metabolism and not go over, We have to undo the damage we did before by overeating and underexcersizing. Once we get to where we are BACK to where we are supposed to be by losing the excess fat, we can eat tons (up to our maintenance levels) and never gain any more.

The COMPLETE MYTH that diets dont work because people diet and then gain the weight back is ABSOLUTELY BULLCRAP!!! Nothing could be a bigger lie then this other then the lie that bush supposedly went to war for oil. (Even Canada produces 4x the oil iraq does, USA = 2.3x, Venezuela 2x, Iraq does not even produce 1.7% of the worlds oil supply, that is like nothing, even Russia produces more for petes sake, oh wait, talk facts to a liberal? i better shut up before they start screaming their typical personal attack insults like usual as their only comeback)

Diets DO work, what DOESNT work IS NOT the diet, it is that the person changes their eating to below maintenance level...then they raise it back up again over maintenance level without raising their metabolism, and are eating again more then they should have in the first place. there was NOTHING wrong with the diet. IN FACT the diet WORKED as they lost weight. What didnt work, is that they STOPPED the diet. DUH!

I cant wait till I get to my desired weight, I will be able to eat whatever the hell i want almost without gaining any weight. You will have a calorie budget you can choose whatever to eat with.

This is what I mean. Daily during your diet you are at a 500-1000 calorie deficit so you can lose 1-2 pounds fat per week. Well Once you are in better shape and at your target and your metab is higher, creating say a 1200 calorie/day deficit...unless you dont want to lose MORE weight, you WILL HAVE TO EAT 1200 MORE cals of SOMETHING or you will CONTINUE to lose.

What? you didnt realize this? Yeah man...when that happens, its party time, youll have to pig out and will be able to eat tons of crap all day long every day as long as you excersize the same. You could excersize less and eat a little more..etc half and half or some of each etc. You will have a big budget to work with, and one thing is for sure...

It is WAYYYY fricken easier to maintain, then it is to lose. So once you are there, just maintain. People forget that they dont have to keep dieting like this forever in order to stay in good shape, they only need to do it TO GET THERE. Its just like getting rich...once your rich, you dont have to get rich all over again, you just have to make sure you dont BLOW IT. Frick I cant wait to hit my goal HAHAHAA...its gonna be soooo easy to stay there

YOU GO DUDES!!!!!!!

I just sent you an email.