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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Jan-11-07, 11:07
terry721's Avatar
terry721 terry721 is offline
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Posts: 22
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 200/187/145 Female 5'6
BF:
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Hay, I ordered 2 - Jarrow Formulas 100% Natural Whey Protein Unflavored Protein -- 2 LB Ultrafiltered Powder from this site.

I'm drinking it right now, before I go and workout. Heheheheh

I wish I could access the Yahoo Candida thread from work. My company has all Yahoo group threads blocked.

Crow - Is it true that you can eat Cheese as long as it's served hot with your meal?
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  #17   ^
Old Sat, Feb-03-07, 10:18
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
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Duncan, the yahoo group is very difficult to find information about dairy and cheese. There is so much content I can't find a straight answer anywhere. Is it OK to eat cheese if you are very low carb? I mean, will cheese really make or break your candida treatment plan if you're VERY low carb (no sugar in any form) and take supplemens like caprylic acid and pau d'arco? Does anyone know? I would value anyone's opinion. I just can't seem to get off cheese with my very low carb diet and have always wondered if I'm doing more harm than good with cheese. Please note that I do not drink milk or any other dairy products other than butter and HARD cheeses.

Thanks, ya'll!
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 11:23
duncancrow duncancrow is offline
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Posts: 21
 
Plan: Duncan's choice
Stats: 165/160/160 Male 5'10
BF:
Progress:
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Regarding cheese specifically; if you can digest the casein you only have to worry about the lactose feeding candida. It doesn't matter what temperature the cheese is; lactose can feed candida and lots of other things.

The anti-candida diets usually do not allow cheese but as your bowel ecology improves you can cheat. The bowel ecology allowed the candida in the first place due to inadequate inulin, but one curse of a modern diet. Inulin feeds probiotics that control candida.

If you add the missing inulin back into your diet to feed probiotics you can tolerate some casual carb exposure without bothering the dysbiosis, the candida OR your diet, because the probiotics make short-chain fatty acids out of it. Here's the science, about a week of reading if you want it, that we use on the candidiasis yahoogroup.
http://tinyurl.com/2m29z

"Dairy" is a catch-all generalization for a range of components that shouldn't be grouped together anyway. Some components of "dairy" happen to be useful to crucial in a health program, undenatured whey for example is the primary precursor for the master antioxidant glutathione, and people need more of it, not less. Butter and especially ghee is another example of a good "dairy" food. I have exposed the "dairy" myth on my Budwig Diet revision page:
http://tinyurl.com/yjh9su

Duncan Crow
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Feb-05-07, 18:19
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
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Hey ya'll. I just got some OoO yesterday and started yesterday. I'd been taking caprylic acid and pau d'arco for aboue 1/2 a month before that, but was eating cheese Today I stopped eating cheese. I noticed something strange. After lunch, about an hour, I felt very unusually drowsy and uncoordinated. Could this have been a side-effect of candida die-off? I wasn't expecting anything like this, but it came over me all of a sudden and was like "whoa."

Today I've had a total of 3 drops. I stuggle a lot with bloating and abdominal distension, and was told I have IBS. So, I'm on this meat/eggs/sat. fat/cod liver oil diet now. I got carried away with the cheese for about 3-4 weeks now, but am finally out of that hole.

Does my regimen sound good enough to do some cleaning-up after years of terrible high-carb., refined sugar, refined grains, cereal, JUNK eating - since I was a child really? My only symptoms really are abdominal bloating/distension (IBS), chronic dry eye syndrome, and poor memory, etc. No skin rashes or anything like that. I'm otherwise pretty healthy and don't have any complaints. I'm not overweight - if anything, perhaps a little underweight from eating such a high-carb. diet for life - wrecked my metabolism in the opposite way.
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  #20   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 13:20
duncancrow duncancrow is offline
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Posts: 21
 
Plan: Duncan's choice
Stats: 165/160/160 Male 5'10
BF:
Progress:
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Jason, because you didn't mention vegetables or supplements I'd have to say the diet looks inadequate to do any cleaning up.

All veggies that are low-carb are OK.

You need fiber in addition to the veggies - lots of it; some people use inulin for the prebiotic fiber, AND veggies AND psyllium or Dreamfields pasta.

You also need lots of antioxidants; undenatured whey, selenium, vitamin C, E, A, and D as a minimum.

This approach is what is curing candida in months; it's used by members of the candidiasis group, is the largest, the most scientific and relatively free of the "candida myths" such as are promoted on the candidasupport group. The candidasupport group people are on their diet for a couple of years due to being mired in their myths.

Here's another testimonial from two days ago, from one candidiasis member who had been a member of candidasupport for about a year with no results:

Re: comparison - Gail


This is sooooooo true! Ever since I've been on the whey and inulin I am so much better and can cheat a little here and there. Even have a small piece of chocolate once in awhile with no reaction.

I'm so glad to have found this group or I'd still be struggling under a lot of other misconceptions.

Gail </Gail wrote:>


--- In candidiasis~yahoogroups.com, "Duncan Crow" <duncancrow~...> wrote:

Gail, how much shorter do you think your path is compared to not using the undenatured whey and inulin? Did you also high-dose on probiotics?

Duncan

<Gail wrote:>
Oh, gosh, that's hard to determine. Before I started the whey and inulin I couldn't touch even a teeny speck of sugar (or something high-carb) without having my oral thrush explode and my lips swell up, or get terrible oozing rashes. After abt 2 weeks on the whey and inulin my mouth was healing up and I was just feeling better all around -- much less bloating, improved digestion, increased energy. I'm thinking I'd probably be back where I was 2 mo ago if I hadn't started taking it. I wasn't seeing any improvement before and would feel sick all the time off and on. And I was really strict on keeping to the diet because I was scared to death of the reactions I got if I didn't stick to it.

I kept thinking maybe after a year on the diet I'd start feeling better -- or that it might take even longer than that at the rate I was feeling and (not)progressing. How depressing that was. And now I am feeling soooo good compared to where I was and my oral thrush is about gone -- just a little bit of white on my tongue - even if I eat something like the chocolate I have no reaction in my mouth or lips anymore. I did try a buckwheat pancake recently and guess I'm not ready for grains yet - made me bloated and next morning felt pretty sick but was ok by mid-afternoon. Before the whey and inulin I would have been much sicker and it would have lasted for days.

I didn't high-dose on probiotics. I had some and was taking them at first but most of the time would forget to take them. But I did start taking this enzyme formula my daughter's naturopath sent me that I think helps a lot too. I mix it right in with the whey & inulin.

Gail
</Gail wrote:>





Duncan
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 13:55
NosugarPLS NosugarPLS is offline
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Posts: 26
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 150/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
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I second the selenium, whey and inulin!!!!! I am having amazing results, for example, for the first time in my life I'm having painfree mentrual periods! and am happy more optimistic than I have ever been. I also take the supplements mentioned plus tyrosine and DHA. I started out eating an extreme lo carb diet but now shoot for 6 veggies a day, including greens sauteed with onion and garlic daily. I use oil of oregano and Yeast Cleanse by Soloray, fatigue and bloating are typical of die-off, as is flu-like symptoms. Check out the thread on Oil of Oregano in this forum, very powerful stuff. I'm into month 6 overall and month 3 of adding selenium, whey and inulin to my diet, I feel 100x better since adding the S,W and I.
Good Luck!
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 18:57
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
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Thank-you for your suggestions, Duncan, but I think we have very different views on diet and nutrition. Could you please elaborate as to why you feel my diet is inadequate to do any cleaning-up? I do not believe in the fiber theory and my position is that it is not necessary for a healthy human to thrive (or recover from a disease for that matter). Although not able to bring about candida remission on its own, I believe a diet of animal products and lots of healthy fats (saturated, n3 EFAs, etc.) are the greatest components to a candida recovery. Of course, anti-candida herbs and supplements are also necessary.

You mentioned I didn't mention any supplements, but I did mention one supplement I take - cod liver oil, which is one human's best sources of natural vitamins A and D. I also take a probiotic daily, along with magnesium, bone meal, biotin, borage oil, and digestive enzymes among other things.

This is more so pointed in the direction of the individual who provided the testimonial... I have to say that the idea that this is a cure, and then you can just go back to eating carbs again is a dream. I am very convinced that humans are meat and saturated fat eaters and thinking that one can simply re-introduce carbs (especially grains and refined sugars) into their diet after a set period of time is unrealistic - I believe that this is how the candida got out of control in the first place.
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Feb-07-07, 14:40
duncancrow duncancrow is offline
New Member
Posts: 21
 
Plan: Duncan's choice
Stats: 165/160/160 Male 5'10
BF:
Progress:
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Jason, we might indeed have differing opinions on diet and nutrition and it's OK by me that you don't believe in the fiber theory.

In my opinion the fiber link to health has been proven as a pretty well airtight case, as you'll see when you research it.

One of the most salient points is that soluble fiber (high-inulin vegetable broth) has been used for 5,000 years in China and 2,000 in Greece specifically for bowel disorders.

The second point is that bowel dysbiosis is known to promote toxin generation, and this is a primary cancer cause, particularly but not limited to bowel cancer (keywords: inulin aberrant crypt foci). When inulin is added to the diet, aberrant crypt foci (cancer starts) are reduced.

I think this is a big deal for a lot of people considering the epidemic of bowel dysbiosis and colon cancer.

There's more; I've compiled about a week's worth of steep learning curve on the subject, into the references here: http://tinyurl.com/3nxva

You asked for an opinion. I have dealt with almost 2,000 cases of bowel disorders in the last 6 years with inulin, undenatured whey and selenium, and a smattering of other suplements, without side effects. The key complaints besides dysbiosis and candidiasis that were relieved were brain fog, lack of mental focus, depression, lethargy, insomnia, anxiety, skewed immune response, leaky gut syndrome; all these result from toxin load, and the malabsorption due to that load is not inconsequential. Part of my treatment then directly addresses toxin load, part of the "cleaning up" you asked about, with an antioxidant regime and for that matter, liver flushes.

Low antioxidants have been identified in other research as causative of the oxidative stress condition that so dramatically affects health and shortens life span. Not only do you need the cod-liver oil, you need the antioxidants that you'd normally get in vegetables, fruit, and supplements. (keywords: oxidative stress antioxidants glutathione)

Antioxidants all work together, and glutathione is the primary support for detoxification, which addresses your question from another perspective.

I recognize there are several approaches to diet, many of which are modeled after various primal diets. I think this high-fiber high-antioxidant approach more correctly reflects our biology AND our symbiosis with probiotic gut bacteria that the low-fiber diets fail to address.

Neither my approach nor yours suggests we can or should eat high-carb foods at all; what varies is the amount of fiber and antioxidant support. But people want a degree of latitude in their diets and this approach allows it

By the way with regard to your probiotic, it's been shown that probiotics you eat do not work beyond the few hours they are in the gut, so you have to take them forever. This is not really a sustainable or natural dietary practice but a stopgap measure, and it arises because if the probiotics aren't fed, and fiber (and some natural carbs) is what they eat, they can't replicate and compete on the bowel wall. This is crucially important for nutrient absorption, bowel acidity, and short chain fatty acid production the bowel cells rely on, and not doing it, while still eating carbs, is the reason the candida got out of control.

Doing it without fiber is technically possible but I think it's a survival adaptation as opposed to an optimization.

Duncan
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, Feb-07-07, 20:58
Jayppers's Avatar
Jayppers Jayppers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 651
 
Plan: Mostly carnivory
Stats: 145/145/145 Male 5'11'' (feet and inches)
BF:
Progress: -20%
Location: Ohio
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Hi, Duncan. Thanks for your reply, your recommendations, and the information you have provided; However, I respectfully disagree with the majority of your statements.

Would you mind if I ask the composition of the typical diet you recommend for those you consult with in regards to inflammatory bowel diseases? For example, __% carbohydrate, __% fat (the types of fat & oils you recommend), and __% protein. It sounds to me as though your diet is primarily low-starch vegetable based, am I correct? If so, or not, what % of the diet consists of plant foods and what % of the diet consists of animal foods (on average).

Also, where do you stand with regards to the idea that human beings have evolved into primarily meat and saturated fat eaters? And, have you ever read the book Life Without Bread?

Thanks, Duncan! Take care,
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  #25   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 11:36
duncancrow duncancrow is offline
New Member
Posts: 21
 
Plan: Duncan's choice
Stats: 165/160/160 Male 5'10
BF:
Progress:
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I'd find it difficult, and you would too, to break a healthy diet down into carb etc percentages, because the carb count would vary considerably with the vegetables the client eats day by day.

I mean, some days that might be salads and coleslaw (leaves) and some days, mostly roasted parsnips and onions (roots); there's obviously a big difference and we are not about to look up the carbs in each food and tally it for each meal.

Actual carb requirements vary with a person's metabolic rate and activity level more than by the amount of protein and fat was in the diet that day, so there's no hard and fast rule IMO.

I allow my clients to be flexible.

I don't think it's true that we evolved into meat and fat eaters; opportunistic as man is, he would have to eat a good whack of roots and leaves, and some fruit when he could find it, like any omnivore.

Essentially, a high-fiber, fairly high-protein and low-carb diet approximates what has been ascertained by analyzing actual coprolites (poo) from ancient man. This document on studies such as this by one pleontologist should intrerest you.

http://tinyurl.com/36nnc5

Duncan
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