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  #1   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 07:33
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Default Goitrogens

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...mpires-and.html
Quote:
Tuesday, May 26, 2009
Spontaneous combustion, vampires, and goitrogens

What do the following have in common:

Lima beans
Flaxseed
Broccoli
Cabbage
Kale
Soy
Millet
Sorghum?

They are all classified as goitrogens, or foods that have been shown to trigger goiter, or thyroid gland enlargement. Most of them do this either by blocking iodine uptake in the thyroid gland or by blocking the enzyme, thyroid peroxidase. This effect can lead to reduction in thyroid hormone output by the thyroid gland, which then triggers increased thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) by the pituitary; increased TSH acts as a growth factor on the thyroid, thus goiter.

Add to this list of goitrogens the flavonoid, quercertin, found in abundance in red wine, grapes, apples, capers, tomatoes, cherries, raspberries, teas, and onions. Most of us obtain around 30 mg per day from our diet. Quercetin, often touted as a healthy flavonoid alongside resveratrol (e.g., Yang JY et al 2008), has been shown to be associated with reduced risk for heart disease and cancer. Many people even take quercetin as a nutritional supplement.

Quercetin has also been identified as a goitrogen (Giuliani C et al 2008).

What to make of all this?

Most of these observations have been made in in vitro ("test tube") preparations or in mice. Rabbits who consume a cabbage-only diet can develop goiter.

How about humans? The few trials conducted in humans have shown little or no effect. In most instances, the adverse effects of goitrogens have been eliminated with supplemental iodine. In other words, goitrogens seem to exert their ill thyroid effects when iodine deficiency is present. Restore iodine . . . no more goitrogens (with rare exceptions).

Should we as humans adopt a diet that avoids apples, grapes, tomatoes, red wine, tea, onions, soy etc. on the small chance that we will develop goiter?

I believe that we should avoid these common food-sourced goitrogens with as much enthusiasm as we should be worried about spontaneous combustion of humans or the appearance of vampires on our front porches. We are as likely to suffer low thyroid activity from quercetin or other "goitrogens" as we are to experience the "mitochondrial explosions" that are purported to set innocent people afire.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 08:26
bike2work bike2work is offline
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I'm surprised at this post in light of his recent posts telling us how common goiters are. He's said recently that he finds goiters in two patients a day, on average.

So it sounds like he thinks that we're all suffering a collective iodine deficiency rather than that we aren't evolved to eat the foods with goitrogens. So why do we have this iodine deficiency? Is there a natural source our paleo ancestors would have eaten? Those living near a coastline would have kelp and seaweed, but not those living inland. Or are we getting some anti-nutrient that's depleting our natural iodine levels?
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 08:30
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I think humankind pretty much evolved along the coastlines and were big fish eaters until rather recently. Moving away from the shore probably was something that happened around the time agriculture was developed. Or a little before.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something else affecting our thyroids, like the jet fuel contaminant in our water. But I agree with his point, it'd be hard to eat enough goitrogenic foods to have a significant effect on your thyroid. Hard but not impossible.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 08:31
bike2work bike2work is offline
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 08:33
bike2work bike2work is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I think humankind pretty much evolved along the coastlines and were big fish eaters until rather recently. Moving away from the shore probably was something that happened around the time agriculture was developed. Or a little before.

That makes sense for my ancestry -- mostly (what is now) Great Britain.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 08:33
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
In other words, goitrogens seem to exert their ill thyroid effects when iodine deficiency is present.

So take a little iodine and enjoy those foods.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 08:47
bike2work bike2work is offline
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Plan: Fung-inspired fasting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
So take a little iodine and enjoy those foods.

Have you turned a corner Nancy? Lima beans, soy, millet, sorghum?

Actually, I'd like to bring some soy back into my diet for variety. Mapo dofu is delicious and I liked Robin's idea of turning it into faux falafel. Those black soy beans aren't half bad either, especially in soups and refried beans. I always liked edamame too. Straight up or in stir-fries.

I need to re-visit Weston Price and remember the other arguments against soy. Something about it being estrogenic, I think.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 09:14
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,889
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Have you turned a corner Nancy? Lima beans, soy, millet, sorghum?

Ew no! I do like turnips, cabbage, broccoli and the occasional tofu. But frankly, my thyroid gland is dead so I can eat all the goitrogens in the world and it isn't going to make it produce less than it currently does!

Did you try the soy falafel yet? That sounded good.

Yeah, soy is estrogenic.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, May-27-09, 13:23
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Ew no! I do like turnips, cabbage, broccoli and the occasional tofu.


Yeah, turnips, cabbage and broccoli are all among my faves. I'd hate to get rid of them. But tofu? That's an Ewww for me. I've never been really found of tofu in any way, shape or form. I do avoid soy in general, but I admit I do like edamame - though I probably have it once a year.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, May-28-09, 15:30
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nawchem nawchem is offline
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IMHO, (but not sure) I thought my dr told me in autoimmune thyroid the body makes antibodies to a protein the thyroid gland emits. In response the body begins to destroy the thyroid. When thyroid hormone levels fall the thyroid gland enlarges to compensate. Supplementing thyroid hormones adequately shuts down the thyroid eliminating the autoimmune issues. My TSH is zero or sometimes a negative number but I'm not hyperthyroid at all and the swelling in my throat went away as I increased my medication levels.

I have to admit I cut back to moderate levels of broccoli after I was diagnosed hypo. Before I would eat nearly a pound of broccoli a day.
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