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Originally Posted by kallyn
We have starch-splitting enzymes in our spit (salivary amylase).
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I was actually going to offer up that one as a better arguments for omnivore, but didn't want to play too much "devil's advocate" against myself
Though it clearly works against our tooth enamel, so I'm not sure if it's also just a useless vestigial remnant.
It's not a taste, it's a poison detector
I'm not sure that one convinces me one way or the other, some carnivores have more acute/superior eyesight than others, ditto herbivores; anyway, it's food for thought.
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We have bacteria in our digestive tracts who thrive on plant matter,
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I've been curious about intestinal flora/fauna; especially mine. I think my digestion has improved greatly in the absence of plants, I could go into gross details, but I almost kind of wonder/suspect if what people accept as "their" bacteria, aren't just "alien" invaders and a result of the food they eat. It's an area I hope to study more, I used to make my own Kefir and Yoghurt and I do wonder if there isn't such a thing as "beneficial" bacteria.
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Our gut size and bowel length are longer than that of carnivores', our stomachs empty slower, and our food has a longer transit time than that of carnivores (in order to extract more nutrition of out hard to digest plant foods).
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Yeah, I've been reading more about that lately, I wonder if it's not just another vestigial throwback to a distant herbivore ancestor; But it's worthy of consideration.
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Whenever ancient camp sites are found in the fossil record, along with all the remains of butchered bones, there is ample evidence for the use of plant food as well. Cast off nut and seed shells, concentrated pollen just to name two. Sometimes digging sticks are also found, which were used to help dig up tubers.
On the rare occasion that we find fossilized human excrement, plant matter is present. http://www.scirpus.ca/dung/human.htm and http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/...teAnalysts.html
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I'm not trying to be argumentative on this one, it's just whenever someone posts a link to a dig like that... it invariably seems to be upper-paleo or neolithic. On the other hand, I'm not convinced there aren't older sites that wouldn't support it, I like to keep an open mind, and I'd like to see some specific examples.
I've found ones that claim we're at about the same levels as carnivores; but I'll go through these when I have some time, it is exactly what I was asking for.
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Everyone who has come in contact with a living hunter-gatherer group and has reported on their diet mentions at least some kind of plant food (inuit and far northern american indians being exceptions due to their extreme environments).
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Yeah, the modern HG arguments are tricky, it's easy for both sides to cherry pick and use the groups that suit them. Perhaps, it's because I'm north american that I tend to identify the most with those groups, I can be as biased as anyone I suppose.
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Plant food is very easy to gather and provides an easy source of calories ...
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I'm still inclined to see that the other way around, but there are obviously places on our planet where either case could be made.
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Now, I don't think anyone here disagrees that we need meat/fat as a large staple part of our diet for good health. In fact, our brain:gut ratio absolutely requires it (see my favorite paper ever, the expensive tissue hypothesis, here: http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid...pt=sci_arttext). ...
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Yeah, it's an argument I liked from "The Hunting Hypothesis" for Carnivorism. But it still works, even if one allows some vegetation into the mix... it's certainly the common ground I stand on with most of the people in here. It even falls in line with some definitions of carnivorism to allow a small percentage of vegetable input. It's kind of a semantics game, but I thought one interesting definition from wikipedia carnivore entry is:
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"An obligate or true carnivore is an animal that must eat meat in order to thrive"
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Which I do believe applies to us; I don't think vegans can "thrive" whereas pure meat eating humans can and do. Anyway, it all kind of dwindles down to a "give it a name" thing... so I don't want to get too mired in hair-splitting arguments about our classification.
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(I was going to provide a link for each point, but then I realized I had been working on this post wayyyyyy too long and I gave up).
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I really do appreciate the magnum opus of links and thoughts you assembled here. I'll make sure I devote more time to going over each of them, I'm sure I'll find all of them useful and informative. Thanks again Kallyn, for being your usual helpful self, and for the taking the time to do this.