Ken, I salute your dedication to the gumbo cause. By this time in your quest I would have thrown up my hands and decided that either "good enough is good enough", or "better another dish entirely than a mediocre substitute" LOL. I speak from total inexperience here, never having eaten, much less cooked, gumbo. You obviously like full flavored foods, and are not averse to time in the kitchen. Have you tried beef rendang? It's a beef stew from Indonesia that my DH and I are quite fond of. I leave out the sugar (couple of tablespoons) to no obvious detriment (maybe Indonesians wouldn't agree LOL). This recipe is very like the one I use: http://rasamalaysia.com/beef-rendan...ndang-daging/2/