Meat and Fatty liver? More population study nonsense
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...80320084350.htm The time for this type of hypothesis-generating study is mostly past, this has been worked into the ground. An increase in poor-quality evidence does nothing but increase a cognitive bias--the more you hear something repeated, from the more sources, the more it seems true. Fish or cut bait, show us a bunch of intervention studies where boiled beef gives better results than fried. Or raw is better. There is a bit of evidence out there, they've given mice pellets well cooked or not. But just adding water to a pellet, or making it harder or softer some other way, can have an effect. The cooking method was steaming--you could guess that pellets steamed twice as long might be softer--and softer pellets result in worse outcomes in mice, perhaps because they don't hurt the animal's mouth when they eat it. Another possibility, just add these compounds to the chow without changing how they cook the pellets. Okay, can work, but these compounds are yummy, it's why we like barbecue, other things that make chow more appealing also give animals a worse result. Maybe that's a factor in humans, too--but if it is, we're likely to just find some other way to make the food extra palatable, it's not like we lack imagination in that department. |
If I'm understanding the report, they asked ONLY about meat consumption, then concluded that higher meat consumption caused disease. But the people must have been eating other things, too - like sugar, bread, potatoes, fruit. Did the researchers believe that these foods had no affect on health?
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That's right Bonnie, No mention of the box of Twinkies and the quart of Coke per day and how that factors into the study's cause and effects....
Isn't that always the way it is.. Oh look he eats meat and he is sick, therefor meat is bad and made him sick! LOLOL What do you call that? tunnel vision, take the blinders off, look at the big picture. |
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...80321162250.htm
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Eating low carb seems to have given me a roughly zero percent chance of high blood pressure. I think I can risk that 15 percent increase of zero. The Nurses Health study, there's gold (fool's) in them thar hills. More today: Quote:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...80321162252.htm These studies are nothing more or less than propagandizing. Before either study was done, they knew perfectly well that certain meats were associated in this cohort with these poor outcomes. So it's predictable that breaking things down to some of the components, animal fat vs. plant, heterocyclic amines, carnitine and related metabolites, Neu5Gc content of the diet, that are going to go along with the red meat intake are also going to associate with the same outcomes. This might be evidence, but it's not new evidence. In the weight of the evidence, somebody has their thumb on the scale, the same basic observation gets weighted in multiple times. |
Wish I could use myself as an example but I have enjoyed living a life of excess and still maintained relatively good health. From my experience it is possibly the overindulgence in red meat, saturated fat, wine, etc. and possibly some underindulgence in certain areas specific to the person that are the problem.
Given that I now have mild NAFLD and gall stones, hindsight is 20/20. I can imagine doing a study has got to be difficult especially at the start you have the bias of those doing the study. |
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Sort of a different way to approach this--I don't think meat, saturated fat and such are necessarily causative, although I do think it likely that they're conditionally causative. An obvious example--if somebody indulges their love of meat with a trip to McDonald's, gets a Big Mac, fries, apple pie and a shake. I'm more likely to overeat fried rice with fat and beef in it than boiled white rice. You can have a healthy diet with lots of beef in it, that doesn't presuppose that there aren't baseline diets that can be made worse by the addition of meat--but even there, something has to go, but it doesn't have to be the beef. |
When it comes to processed meats/red meats, I don't think we are talking fine Italian cold cuts like prosciutto and a ribeye steak, are we?
We are talking about hamburgers and bologna. In other words, sandwiches. |
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I made it seem too specific to meat and saturated fat when I spoke to overconsumption. There are other things that have happened with me, probably related to hormonal imbalance - who knows that can trigger eating uncontrolable amounts of food. Usually for short periods, but there was a time I think I put on 30 pounds just from eating good food, with a couple exceptions. |
I figure man has caught meat, stuck in fire long time. Good enough for me.
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Taubes wrote in Good Calories Bad Calories about how people couldn't be made to overeat pork chops. Maybe generally true--but put a stack of them in front of me when I'm in the wrong state--even a tiny bit of booze, or if I've been eating a not-so-ketogenic diet, etc. and I can overdo them, do this often enough and I can get fat on them. They're the least fattening food I know, but I still have to approach them a certain way for best results, just cook what I intend to eat, cooking extra to eat later has never worked for me. I once made a week's worth of chocolate coconut fat bomb snacks, then ate it for breakfast. That actually worked out pretty good, I wasn't hungry for anything else the rest of the day, and a friend got his first deer, I helped him carry it to his ATV, I got into a deeper than usual ketosis and found out I performed a lot better that way. But if I want fat bombs for a week, I have to mix a single serving at a time.
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Why do you think that is? At Christmas last year someone made me an entire amazing pumpkin cheesecake because I liked it so much from the year before. I took it home nervously and proceeded to consume the entire cheesecake the following day. It was like 12 - 15 thousand calories. I have never done anything of that magnitude before. I was both disgusted and proud of myself at the same time. There is a theory out that overconsuming calories/sugar could be related to mitochondrial health and deuterium. |
In mouse studies, they look at how hard animals will work to get food. Make them climb a slope to get at the food. The animals will work harder to get to oreos than they will for plain mouse chow. To a degree, clamp for palatability, and the animals will eat less if the food has to be worked for. I'm the same way with that low carb cheesecake--once it's made, I'm likely to make meals of it (if it lasts past one meal) until it's gone. But if I have to go to the store, get the ingredients, mix them together, wait for it to bake--the effort involved keeps me from bothering, most of the time. A few times I've come home with ingredients, and decided I'd rather just have cream cheese.
If I cook five hamburger patties, I'm liable to eat them all. If I cook two, I'm liable to be happy with that. I'd like more, obviously since pretty repeatably if I cook more I'll eat and enjoy them. But usually I don't want more to the point where I'll bother to cook more. Cooked meat is just more appealing than raw. Cheese and nuts are common problem foods. One theory is that they are too palatable. It's true that they're palatable, it's also true that by nature they're ready to eat, just as they are. How much effort does it take to fry a couple eggs? Precious little. But if you're feeling a little peckish, even that slight bit of work might drive you towards the cheese vs. the egg, if the egg were the only option, sometimes you might not even bother. Once a friend stayed at our cottage and brought some big steaks, mine was ridiculous. The barbecue gave out while they were still pretty raw. I like steak every way from totally raw to well-done. So I just started eating mine. I got halfway and was stuffed. My friend fried the remainder with butter. It was like a dessert effect, with the first bite my appetite returned. I got halfway through, full again--my friend fried it again, more of those yummy advanced glycation end products--and I finished the steak. I would have been done with food still on my plate, if he'd left well enough alone the first time, that's pretty rare for me. |
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...and here, I thought I was just an oddball with a freakish appetite. It's nice to know I'm in good company, your description and approach to food fir me to a tee. For the future I will keep in mind my afterthought of having some and immediately throwing the rest away before I can go back to the fridge again and find the remainder to consume. |
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Honestly, from what I've seen and experienced, aside from the prevalent commonality of carb consumption begetting more and more carb consumption (which could have been a factor with your pumpkin cheesecake, since it surely was made with real sugar), we all have different "trigger foods". I may eat cheese every single day, but while cheese may trigger binge behavior in some people, it doesn't trigger the all-or-nothing, "one bite is too much, the entire block is never enough" reaction for me. I have some cheese on an omelet for breakfast, maybe some in a dinner recipe, and sometimes a few "cracker cuts" slices makes a good snack (when they give me a break so early at work that it's way it's too early for a real meal, or even a filling snack, but feel like I'd better eat something, or else I know I'll be really hungry before they ever manage to give me another break). I enjoy the cheese, but it doesn't trigger me to eat more and more cheese. For me, it's nuts (tree nuts, since I don't even like peanuts) that most often evokes the all-or-nothing kind of reaction. I haven't had sugar/starch in quite a while (so long that it tastes awful to me now), but based on my previous decades as a completely out of control high carber, if I ever got used to the taste of sugars and starches again, I can guarantee you those two general categories would start me on an all-out binge again. I don't have that problem when I sweeten LC goodies with stevia. They may taste plenty sweet to me, but the stevia is a different flavor, and doesn't trigger a craving for more sweets, much less sugary sweets. Come to think of it, when I've used sucralose, or saccharin, I don't get that problem either. My point is that everyone is different, just like Teaser's story with the meat - nearly raw, he reached a limit. Then fried in butter he ate more until he reached another limit. And then cooked some more, he finally reached his final limit because it was all gone. |
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I find it very interesting when I hear people say that. I thought I was the only one. I always have to be careful to prepare just what I'm going to eat at one sitting. No saving the extras for another day. The same thing happens if I eat in a restaurant and bring home a doggy bag. I find myself finishing it as soon as I get home. Might as well have eaten it in the restaurant. |
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