gut bacteria/obesity
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This is a fun area. A vegan might be tempted to just accept that these nutrients that meat is rich in are bad for you. Low carbers might be tempted to point out that the likely outcome of deficiency in these nutrients is fatty liver. There is some evidence that choline deficiency can protect mice from diet induced diabetes, but they do get fatty liver in the process. And there's this; https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jobe/2012/319172/ Abstract Quote:
Of course if you approach this from the gut bacteria side rather than as a "bad nutrients" thing, this might yield approaches where people aren't trying to decide whether they'd rather have obesity and diabetes, or a fatty liver. Another question is whether there's a sweet-spot for these nutrients. Also meal-timing might make a difference, keeping tmao elevated throughout the day vs. a smaller window. Since these approaches can be protective vs. diabetes and obesity, it's probably reasonable to suspect they might be protective against this potential mechanism. |
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Ahem. Let's see the reference. (EDIT) Found one. http://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardio...-n-oxide-in-acs Interpretation: TMAO as some biomarker for CVD risk may have merit. What causes it to go up ? ----- Wikipedia ------ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylamine_N-oxide Microbiotic associations The order Clostridiales, the genus Ruminococcus, and the taxon Lachnospiraceae are positively associated with TMA and TMAO levels.[8] In contrast, proportions of S24-7, an abundant family from Bacteroidetes, are inversely associated with TMA and TMAO levels.[8] The concentration of TMAO in the blood increases after consuming foods containing carnitine[10] or lecithin[9] if the bacteria that convert those substances to TMAO are present in the gut.[11] High concentrations of carnitine are found in red meat, some energy drinks, and some dietary supplements; lecithin is found in soy, eggs,[11] as an ingredient in processed food and is sold as a dietary supplement. The link between cardiovascular diseases and TMAO is disputed by other researchers.[13] Clouatre et al. argue that choline sources and dietary L-carnitine do not contribute to a significant elevation of blood TMAO, and the main TMAO source in the diet is fish.[14] Another source of TMAO is dietary phosphatidylcholine, again by way of bacterial action in the gut. Phosphatidyl choline is present at high concentration in egg yolks and some meats. Inhibition of TMAO Vegan and vegetarian diets appear to select against gut flora that metabolize carnitine (in favor of other gut flora more coordinated with their food supply). This apparent difference in their microbiome is associated with substantially reduced gut bacteria capable of converting carnitine to trimethylamine, which is later metabolized in the liver to TMAO.[10] 3,3-Dimethyl-1-butanol (DMB), a structural analog of choline, inhibits microbial TMA formation in mice and in human feces, thereby reducing plasma TMAO levels after choline or carnitine supplementation.[8] It is found in some balsamic vinegars, red wines, and some cold-pressed extra virgin olive oils and grape seed oils.[8] Summary: put some Olive oil based Chipotle Mayo on your Hamburger patty. (Personal opinion: I'm adding mustard, pickles, hot peppers, jalapenos, pepper as well). |
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5127123/
Trimethylamine N-Oxide: The Good, the Bad and the Unknown Quote:
Something that leaps out to confirm my bias; Quote:
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3414418/
(1) Infarction itself causes TMAO to go up. Quote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18769631/ So in the OP original study, TMAO was pointing out the people having a heart attack. TMAO is a product of a heart attack. Not a cause. This study shows TMAO goes up in a heart attack, not that TMAO from food sources causes heart attacks. (2) TMAO is higher in diabetics and patients with poor kidney function. Quote:
So the subjects in the study in the OP could have high TMAO associated with their diabetes or poor renal function. The study did not correct TMAO levels for renal function or diabetes. TMAO is a marker for diabetes and reduced renal function. But that not helpful we have A1c and Creatinine levels already ! of course, everyone should know that low carb diets prevent or cure diabetes. ------------------------------ |
The TMAO produced when I eat meat gets cleared quickly with my good kidneys :)
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Mental note: Eat more chicken and less red meat when I am on dialysis. Quote:
Typo: or |
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Huh ? L-carnitine (which is associated with the eventual production of TMAO) is good for you ? Uhhh ? |
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